1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:01,490 well it's gonna be on with Heidi Hollis 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:03,810 again and we've got a great guest in 3 00:00:09,020 --> 00:00:06,450 Russ Bree always has the Shroud 4 00:00:11,570 --> 00:00:09,030 encounter it's all kinds of information 5 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:11,580 on the Shroud of Turin and Adi I'm 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:13,110 really looking forward to this show it's 7 00:00:18,439 --> 00:00:17,010 uh yeah me too well it's a big topic and 8 00:00:20,810 --> 00:00:18,449 you know of course I'm not as familiar 9 00:00:22,189 --> 00:00:20,820 with the shroud as I am the tilma of 10 00:00:26,779 --> 00:00:22,199 Guadeloupe that I've mentioned before 11 00:00:28,540 --> 00:00:26,789 but which has been absolutely exam 12 00:00:32,030 --> 00:00:28,550 particles that have been examined by 13 00:00:35,060 --> 00:00:32,040 Sandia Labs and you know New Mexico and 14 00:00:38,380 --> 00:00:35,070 there's no pigment pigment no tracing 15 00:00:41,569 --> 00:00:38,390 it's as miraculous as you could get and 16 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:41,579 I mean that's really wild I mean we 17 00:00:45,110 --> 00:00:43,110 couldn't replicate it if we had a whole 18 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:45,120 team of CIA specialists trying to 19 00:00:51,340 --> 00:00:48,450 replicate it but anyhow I'm assuming the 20 00:00:55,819 --> 00:00:51,350 shroud has certain similar authenticity 21 00:00:57,619 --> 00:00:55,829 but on a lighter note for the moment now 22 00:00:59,420 --> 00:00:57,629 I know this sounds strange but then you 23 00:01:03,920 --> 00:00:59,430 live there so that you can speak with 24 00:01:07,490 --> 00:01:03,930 some authority Chicago is bedeviled with 25 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:07,500 bat-like humanoids yes yes that's been 26 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:08,970 going on for several months now 27 00:01:14,450 --> 00:01:11,010 well actually I think they've seen one a 28 00:01:19,070 --> 00:01:14,460 couple years ago even well there's been 29 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:19,080 a dozen sightings just in 2017 yeah and 30 00:01:23,690 --> 00:01:21,360 I'm right close to my place here too I 31 00:01:25,910 --> 00:01:23,700 live in the North the most says the most 32 00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:25,920 recent sighting occurred last month in 33 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:28,320 Logan Square wherever that is very close 34 00:01:36,710 --> 00:01:31,950 to me yeah yeah after a bouncer at the 35 00:01:38,420 --> 00:01:36,720 owl I guess tonight spot saw a bat like 36 00:01:44,210 --> 00:01:38,430 humanoid flying over the lot across the 37 00:01:47,660 --> 00:01:44,220 street and well I mean Who am I to say I 38 00:01:51,530 --> 00:01:47,670 mean you know what yeah it's crazy 39 00:01:55,639 --> 00:01:51,540 and it's freaking people out I'll bet it 40 00:01:57,980 --> 00:01:55,649 is I mean no no even I'm not just crazy 41 00:02:00,649 --> 00:01:57,990 about that like creatures running about 42 00:02:04,340 --> 00:02:00,659 but those these kind of things have been 43 00:02:06,260 --> 00:02:04,350 reported many different places and they 44 00:02:08,270 --> 00:02:06,270 had a semi truck driver reported strange 45 00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:08,280 maladies after spotting a flying 46 00:02:12,699 --> 00:02:10,319 humanoid over a Chicago Expressway in 47 00:02:15,130 --> 00:02:12,709 March of 2017 48 00:02:17,289 --> 00:02:15,140 witness walking their dog in Oz park 49 00:02:22,959 --> 00:02:17,299 wherever they'll that is ran into a 50 00:02:24,610 --> 00:02:22,969 paralyzing wingding April 10 our course 51 00:02:27,130 --> 00:02:24,620 three separate witnesses son I have 52 00:02:31,089 --> 00:02:27,140 identified fly humanoid over Chicago for 53 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:31,099 April 15th and 16th and just one more a 54 00:02:34,959 --> 00:02:32,930 man fishing with his son of the banks of 55 00:02:36,879 --> 00:02:34,969 the little column at River I guess in 56 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:36,889 Chicago sees a weird wing being after 57 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:39,530 hearing an eerie unexplained sound just 58 00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:42,530 as recently as April 27th oh yeah they 59 00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:44,480 described it sounding like a train 60 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:48,560 coming to a screeching stop yeah it 61 00:02:52,509 --> 00:02:50,510 seems like it's pretty well IL and one 62 00:02:54,460 --> 00:02:52,519 more family walking along the riverfront 63 00:02:57,339 --> 00:02:54,470 sees a flying humanoid cross over the 64 00:02:59,229 --> 00:02:57,349 William Fahy bridge within a week of the 65 00:03:01,959 --> 00:02:59,239 May 5th I mean it's just happened a lot 66 00:03:03,819 --> 00:03:01,969 yeah and by by some incredible people I 67 00:03:07,330 --> 00:03:03,829 mean families and stuff not just yet 68 00:03:10,509 --> 00:03:07,340 hanging around a bar and stuff I need to 69 00:03:12,369 --> 00:03:10,519 get on the tail of this you know anybody 70 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:12,379 seen this stuff I think they should send 71 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:15,169 me the reports I mean just honestly go 72 00:03:22,629 --> 00:03:19,370 to Heidi Hollis calm because this I mean 73 00:03:24,490 --> 00:03:22,639 it has like reflective eyes some have 74 00:03:26,589 --> 00:03:24,500 reported kind of red eyes and like this 75 00:03:32,349 --> 00:03:26,599 is interesting it's Mothman is 76 00:03:34,509 --> 00:03:32,359 essentially Mothman so why not and you 77 00:03:36,580 --> 00:03:34,519 know Mothman always predicts horrible 78 00:03:38,140 --> 00:03:36,590 things to come so my goodness there's 79 00:03:40,509 --> 00:03:38,150 always horrible things going on here in 80 00:03:42,699 --> 00:03:40,519 Chicago with all the shootings don't see 81 00:03:45,189 --> 00:03:42,709 something worse like a terrorist act or 82 00:03:47,740 --> 00:03:45,199 something or an earthquake or I don't 83 00:03:49,659 --> 00:03:47,750 know like thing why shouldn't I do I've 84 00:03:52,449 --> 00:03:49,669 got one I've got one more that happened 85 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:52,459 very recently a police officer along 86 00:03:56,170 --> 00:03:54,290 with officers partner or group of 87 00:03:58,449 --> 00:03:56,180 civilians saw dark black shadow with 88 00:04:00,780 --> 00:03:58,459 wings standing atop a building before 89 00:04:03,550 --> 00:04:00,790 taking flight in the auburn gresham 90 00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:03,560 neighborhood of Chicago just on June 29 91 00:04:09,729 --> 00:04:07,340 and one report said that they saw two of 92 00:04:11,860 --> 00:04:09,739 them flapping together that's even more 93 00:04:14,349 --> 00:04:11,870 horrifying I guess I gotta have buddies 94 00:04:19,390 --> 00:04:14,359 but no I mean Heidi that's just a few 95 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:19,400 days ago yeah so I mean this is so it 96 00:04:25,510 --> 00:04:22,130 sticking out you know well Chicago is 97 00:04:26,410 --> 00:04:25,520 kind of a colorful place well this is 98 00:04:28,570 --> 00:04:26,420 the this is 99 00:04:30,610 --> 00:04:28,580 Gotham City for the Batman movie so it's 100 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:30,620 kind of appropriate maybe it's some kind 101 00:04:37,330 --> 00:04:34,910 of a PR campaign I'd well I don't know 102 00:04:39,010 --> 00:04:37,340 but I mean you know I kind of a police 103 00:04:41,830 --> 00:04:39,020 officers not gonna say this just kind of 104 00:04:43,630 --> 00:04:41,840 willy-nilly because you know they have 105 00:04:46,090 --> 00:04:43,640 their reputations if somebody thinks 106 00:04:47,740 --> 00:04:46,100 there's a gets athletics they're not 107 00:04:50,650 --> 00:04:47,750 gonna you know might give it a boot you 108 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:50,660 know reputation sucks here in Chicago 109 00:04:55,390 --> 00:04:54,110 anyhow but yeah yeah maybe singing this 110 00:04:58,210 --> 00:04:55,400 would be the best thing could happen but 111 00:05:00,280 --> 00:04:58,220 I don't know but now luckily there 112 00:05:03,700 --> 00:05:00,290 haven't been any murders this week by 113 00:05:05,230 --> 00:05:03,710 policemen though that I know of but but 114 00:05:06,820 --> 00:05:05,240 I mean that I don't know what the upshot 115 00:05:11,490 --> 00:05:06,830 has been from the one we talked about in 116 00:05:16,540 --> 00:05:11,500 Minneapolis I know that's still an issue 117 00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:16,550 but there was a billboard and I won't 118 00:05:21,100 --> 00:05:18,800 get into all the particulars could you 119 00:05:22,570 --> 00:05:21,110 know it said one two three or four but 120 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:22,580 it was in Indiana and it was on the 121 00:05:27,220 --> 00:05:25,010 Prophet Mohammed and said yeah he's a 122 00:05:29,290 --> 00:05:27,230 pedophile and he killed six hundred Jews 123 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:29,300 an hour and this night I mean all kinds 124 00:05:35,020 --> 00:05:32,530 of grotesque things but true things and 125 00:05:37,690 --> 00:05:35,030 now the Moslems have their panties in a 126 00:05:40,630 --> 00:05:37,700 wad over it because they put the 127 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:40,640 Billboard up in other words to say 128 00:05:45,550 --> 00:05:42,290 they're holding this individual out as 129 00:05:47,370 --> 00:05:45,560 being a model man and yet he's a brutal 130 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:47,380 murderer and sadist and all that 131 00:05:52,150 --> 00:05:50,810 pedophile everything else and and 132 00:05:58,030 --> 00:05:52,160 they're they got their panties in a wad 133 00:06:00,030 --> 00:05:58,040 because they think it's anti-muslim I 134 00:06:05,020 --> 00:06:00,040 mean no one doubts he did that it's 135 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:05,030 historically chronicled but any rate god 136 00:06:11,290 --> 00:06:07,490 forbid you should criticize the Moslems 137 00:06:14,380 --> 00:06:11,300 but any right that came up other than 138 00:06:18,430 --> 00:06:14,390 that I can't tell the folks we're 139 00:06:20,740 --> 00:06:18,440 getting very big ratings and you and 140 00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:20,750 it's really quite alarming really in a 141 00:06:30,310 --> 00:06:26,510 positive sense it's going well it really 142 00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:30,320 is crazy well and I mean in a certain 143 00:06:35,620 --> 00:06:33,590 sense okay we don't have six hundred 144 00:06:37,150 --> 00:06:35,630 affiliates like coast-to-coast does but 145 00:06:40,780 --> 00:06:37,160 if we did I think we'd beat him pretty 146 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:42,940 oh we beat him into the earth are you 147 00:06:45,340 --> 00:06:43,610 kidding 148 00:06:48,550 --> 00:06:45,350 hitting what pretty close to a million 149 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:48,560 people it's crazy crazy no but I mean 150 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:50,180 that's what that six hundred affiliates 151 00:06:54,670 --> 00:06:51,890 I mean it took 20 years to accumulate 152 00:06:56,890 --> 00:06:54,680 that between art bill and yeah and all 153 00:07:00,520 --> 00:06:56,900 that I mean that was like mining in a 154 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:00,530 coal mine for many years but anyway I 155 00:07:08,590 --> 00:07:04,450 guess we have a good show I think we do 156 00:07:11,230 --> 00:07:08,600 somehow somehow it's it's happened and 157 00:07:12,970 --> 00:07:11,240 we're coming up on the break not quite 158 00:07:15,850 --> 00:07:12,980 but I just want to say the next couple 159 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:15,860 shows we got August first we got Pauly 160 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:18,410 know and he's written a new book and 161 00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:19,850 we'll highlight that I don't have all 162 00:07:25,330 --> 00:07:23,840 the nice and then we have something's 163 00:07:29,020 --> 00:07:25,340 kind of near and dear to me the 164 00:07:32,890 --> 00:07:29,030 following week on August 8th and it's a 165 00:07:34,990 --> 00:07:32,900 show on the Bermuda Triangle nice and 166 00:07:38,260 --> 00:07:35,000 since I you know I split my time growing 167 00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:38,270 up between the Northeast and Florida so 168 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:40,220 I did spend a lot of Florida time and of 169 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:42,650 course I lived right in the Bermuda 170 00:07:48,730 --> 00:07:46,010 Triangle and we had a lot of interesting 171 00:07:50,020 --> 00:07:48,740 experiences around it and this has 172 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:50,030 always been a subject near and dear to 173 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:50,860 my heart 174 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:53,570 yeah because people were coming up 175 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:55,430 missing like 50 foot away from you and 176 00:07:59,590 --> 00:07:57,050 stuff like that I mean all the time I 177 00:08:01,780 --> 00:07:59,600 mean it wasn't just an isolated incident 178 00:08:02,380 --> 00:08:01,790 like the old in Chicago so I mean it 179 00:08:05,110 --> 00:08:02,390 isn't true 180 00:08:06,990 --> 00:08:05,120 yeah I have have really thought about it 181 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:07,000 much ladybug I've got a great guest on 182 00:08:11,740 --> 00:08:10,130 the 8th on that and then I think we're 183 00:08:16,060 --> 00:08:11,750 going to take a two-week hiatus while 184 00:08:27,010 --> 00:08:16,070 Joe's gone overseas to do something and 185 00:08:30,730 --> 00:08:27,020 I have to go to Vegas but we're coming 186 00:08:34,210 --> 00:08:30,740 right up to our first break and we'll be 187 00:08:37,149 --> 00:08:34,220 back with Russ Brio shroud encounter 188 00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:38,740 well it's gonna be back with you know 189 00:08:45,490 --> 00:08:41,240 I'm glad to have Russ Brio on he has the 190 00:08:47,350 --> 00:08:45,500 Shroud encounter and he's just lectured 191 00:08:50,889 --> 00:08:47,360 all over he's been doing this for 25 192 00:08:52,689 --> 00:08:50,899 years on the Shroud of Turin of his 193 00:08:55,199 --> 00:08:52,699 presentations the mystery of the shoud 194 00:08:59,199 --> 00:08:55,209 the Shroud of multimedia encounter and 195 00:09:00,910 --> 00:08:59,209 Russ's spoken at penn state dugal Bern 196 00:09:04,210 --> 00:09:00,920 West Point he's been on the History 197 00:09:05,889 --> 00:09:04,220 Channel Discovery Channel CBS and once 198 00:09:07,990 --> 00:09:05,899 again he's the president and founder of 199 00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:08,000 Shroud of Turin education project it's 200 00:09:11,410 --> 00:09:09,769 good to what talk to you Russ you're 201 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:11,420 looking forward to this interview well 202 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:13,730 it's great to be here thank you and 203 00:09:17,139 --> 00:09:15,470 you're lucky enough to live in the 204 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:17,149 Atlanta area aren't you Peachtree City 205 00:09:22,540 --> 00:09:19,250 is it I do I do 206 00:09:24,069 --> 00:09:22,550 been here about 30 years well I used to 207 00:09:25,689 --> 00:09:24,079 be there I used to live there and I 208 00:09:27,879 --> 00:09:25,699 enjoyed it very much when I got out of 209 00:09:28,470 --> 00:09:27,889 the army I moved to Atlanta and I liked 210 00:09:32,139 --> 00:09:28,480 it very much 211 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:32,149 but and Heidi Hollis is on with us she's 212 00:09:41,790 --> 00:09:39,110 a Christian author herself yeah life is 213 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:41,800 fantastic I'm happy to have you on 214 00:09:47,350 --> 00:09:45,170 you sound actually like a great guest 215 00:09:48,999 --> 00:09:47,360 because sometimes Kevin gets these what 216 00:09:53,519 --> 00:09:49,009 these guests that will make me want to 217 00:10:00,400 --> 00:09:56,230 understand Russ Heidi's a liberal and 218 00:10:07,329 --> 00:10:00,410 I'm somewhat conservative yeah it gets 219 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:07,339 interesting to say the least there's 220 00:10:14,290 --> 00:10:09,290 always two sides every story anyways 221 00:10:16,210 --> 00:10:14,300 isn't that the truth I'm afraid you 222 00:10:17,769 --> 00:10:16,220 might have scared Meagan Barth off I 223 00:10:24,249 --> 00:10:17,779 might have to have her on and study you 224 00:10:27,220 --> 00:10:24,259 that I'm curious about the topic I mean 225 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:27,230 what got you involved in looking into 226 00:10:32,019 --> 00:10:30,050 this shadow turn well you know I was I 227 00:10:36,579 --> 00:10:32,029 was a writer for the college newspaper a 228 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:36,589 long time ago in 1980 and in a 1978 a 229 00:10:41,350 --> 00:10:38,930 whole team of scientists went to Turin 230 00:10:43,860 --> 00:10:41,360 Italy to study a religious artifact if 231 00:10:47,449 --> 00:10:43,870 you can imagine almost 40 scientists and 232 00:10:49,189 --> 00:10:47,459 and in in June of 1980 233 00:10:51,290 --> 00:10:49,199 a big article came out National 234 00:10:53,210 --> 00:10:51,300 Geographic that just caught my attention 235 00:10:54,919 --> 00:10:53,220 and so I asked if I could write some 236 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:54,929 articles for the college newspaper and 237 00:10:59,900 --> 00:10:56,910 they said go for it and so by the time I 238 00:11:01,040 --> 00:10:59,910 did all my research I was hooked so I've 239 00:11:05,199 --> 00:11:01,050 been involved ever since 240 00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:05,209 oh that's cool I understand that 241 00:11:10,429 --> 00:11:08,399 opportunity I think Kevin would do the 242 00:11:13,189 --> 00:11:10,439 same he loves these types of things as 243 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:13,199 well well I do Russ actually I wrote a 244 00:11:18,739 --> 00:11:14,970 book on Marian apparitions a few years 245 00:11:23,660 --> 00:11:18,749 ago and experienced some things and 246 00:11:26,749 --> 00:11:23,670 Heidi's experienced all kinds of Jesus 247 00:11:30,590 --> 00:11:26,759 encounters just one thing we agree on 248 00:11:33,439 --> 00:11:30,600 Jesus is for real oh that's for sure but 249 00:11:36,829 --> 00:11:33,449 now Russa there we have a facsimile of 250 00:11:39,290 --> 00:11:36,839 the Shroud of Turin and my church in 251 00:11:40,970 --> 00:11:39,300 Keller text this st. Elizabeth Ann Seton 252 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:40,980 didn't you give a presentation there at 253 00:11:49,429 --> 00:11:43,649 one summer I was there back in back in 254 00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:49,439 May of this year okay well I mean it's 255 00:11:55,129 --> 00:11:52,769 it's really the only artifact I'm very 256 00:11:57,970 --> 00:11:55,139 familiar with not just the shroud and 257 00:12:01,160 --> 00:11:57,980 just sketchy terms I'm not Material 258 00:12:04,780 --> 00:12:01,170 lumen made us on that but is the tilma 259 00:12:08,449 --> 00:12:04,790 of juan diego at silico grad Lupe I I 260 00:12:11,019 --> 00:12:08,459 had some a friend associate who had 261 00:12:14,809 --> 00:12:11,029 friends from Sandia Labs that examine 262 00:12:17,059 --> 00:12:14,819 particles of that tilma which is a file 263 00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:17,069 basically it's a cactus husk garment 264 00:12:21,079 --> 00:12:18,660 that's 500 years old and still in 265 00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:21,089 pristine condition and there's no 266 00:12:31,369 --> 00:12:24,649 tracing there's no pigment the image of 267 00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,379 Mary on that tilma is miraculous 268 00:12:35,749 --> 00:12:33,600 there's no way to to make that move 269 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:35,759 without pigment there's no way to do it 270 00:12:41,299 --> 00:12:38,610 and it's been in church custody for 500 271 00:12:45,109 --> 00:12:41,309 years so these things exist is all I'm 272 00:12:47,449 --> 00:12:45,119 saying from my limited perspective but 273 00:12:50,929 --> 00:12:47,459 the Shroud I don't really know that much 274 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:50,939 about just in sketchy terms well I think 275 00:12:56,889 --> 00:12:53,490 what makes the Shroud compelling for me 276 00:12:59,929 --> 00:12:56,899 is the fact that this is the only 277 00:13:00,720 --> 00:12:59,939 Christian artifact that's been analyzed 278 00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:00,730 to 279 00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:03,279 extent that the shroud has I mean you 280 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:05,920 have all these scientists most I mean I 281 00:13:09,870 --> 00:13:08,110 would say most of whom thought that the 282 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:09,880 Shroud would be proven to be some kind 283 00:13:15,150 --> 00:13:12,490 of artwork of some kind and they go over 284 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:15,160 there and they have hands on for five 285 00:13:20,970 --> 00:13:18,730 days 120 hours doing all kinds of 286 00:13:23,850 --> 00:13:20,980 analysis x-radiography spectroscopy 287 00:13:27,090 --> 00:13:23,860 infrared thermography photo microscopy 288 00:13:30,319 --> 00:13:27,100 over 30,000 photographs were taken at 289 00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:30,329 different levels of magnification Kodak 290 00:13:35,129 --> 00:13:33,190 they they donated a million dollars 291 00:13:40,129 --> 00:13:35,139 worth of worth of worth of high-tech 292 00:13:43,710 --> 00:13:40,139 film nice so this was a huge project and 293 00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:43,720 they can three years analyzing the the 294 00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:46,180 data which was released in 1981 and 295 00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:48,430 their conclusion what is that you know 296 00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:50,680 we don't know what it is but it's not 297 00:13:57,900 --> 00:13:52,720 the work of an artist and the blood 298 00:13:59,970 --> 00:13:57,910 appears to be blood and it's and so so 299 00:14:02,610 --> 00:13:59,980 the plot certainly thickens but but 300 00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:02,620 consequent you know to this to the 301 00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:05,800 scientific effort the results of these 302 00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:08,260 scientists were published in 24 303 00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:10,510 different peer-reviewed journal articles 304 00:14:16,019 --> 00:14:12,399 I mean I'm talking about major 305 00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:16,029 scientific journals and so so the 306 00:14:20,970 --> 00:14:18,670 science involved in the Shroud is head 307 00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:20,980 and shoulders above anything else that 308 00:14:26,009 --> 00:14:23,350 we have in the in the in the realm of 309 00:14:28,769 --> 00:14:26,019 Christianity and and so that's what 310 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:28,779 makes the Shroud so compelling is the is 311 00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:30,250 the amount of research and investigation 312 00:14:39,660 --> 00:14:35,860 that has gone into it well I guess is 313 00:14:43,650 --> 00:14:39,670 just as a preliminary what is the oh the 314 00:14:46,139 --> 00:14:43,660 shrouds hid as far as you know word it 315 00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:46,149 originated and I guess who's had custody 316 00:14:50,670 --> 00:14:47,529 of it over the years I guess what I'm 317 00:14:53,639 --> 00:14:50,680 saying well you kind of have to break it 318 00:14:56,309 --> 00:14:53,649 up into into into two sections really 319 00:14:58,530 --> 00:14:56,319 and that you have the history in in 320 00:15:01,340 --> 00:14:58,540 Western Europe and then you have the 321 00:15:03,930 --> 00:15:01,350 history in Eastern Europe and the 322 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:03,940 history in Western Europe really goes 323 00:15:10,380 --> 00:15:08,170 from about 13 53 to the current era and 324 00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:10,390 then the history in Eastern Europe goes 325 00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:12,430 from the sixth century and then 326 00:15:18,060 --> 00:15:14,470 disappears and to--and in 327 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:18,070 in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade and it 328 00:15:22,380 --> 00:15:19,930 will store and was stolen by the French 329 00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:22,390 and just lo and behold happens to show 330 00:15:29,610 --> 00:15:27,640 up in France 150 years later I see so 331 00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:29,620 they could trace the history of it back 332 00:15:36,270 --> 00:15:33,040 to the five or six hundred years 500 333 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:36,280 years yeah I think we've got a solid 334 00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:38,370 history you know dating back to around 335 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:41,920 525 and before that you know we're not 336 00:15:45,390 --> 00:15:43,510 you know we think it was probably just 337 00:15:47,820 --> 00:15:45,400 hidden away for several hundred years 338 00:15:50,610 --> 00:15:47,830 and then you know legend legends and 339 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:50,620 folklore talks about a it's called The 340 00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:52,930 Legend of Apgar which is written up by 341 00:15:57,060 --> 00:15:55,480 the historian of subi asst and and you 342 00:15:59,310 --> 00:15:57,070 know AB garv is the king of the 343 00:16:02,430 --> 00:15:59,320 city-state of Edessa this is circa 1st 344 00:16:04,980 --> 00:16:02,440 century and he's dying of leprosy and he 345 00:16:07,290 --> 00:16:04,990 sends a messenger down to Jerusalem to 346 00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:07,300 find Jesus and ask him if he'd be 347 00:16:10,170 --> 00:16:09,070 willing to come to Edessa and bring 348 00:16:12,570 --> 00:16:10,180 healing to the king 349 00:16:15,390 --> 00:16:12,580 well obviously Jesus have has other 350 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:15,400 plans and so and so you know 351 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:17,650 consequently you know this this 352 00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:19,930 mysterious cloth with a mysterious image 353 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:21,840 on it makes its way to Edessa 354 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:24,490 along with the along with the Apostle 355 00:16:30,570 --> 00:16:28,090 Jude Thaddeus and AB gaara's healed of 356 00:16:32,010 --> 00:16:30,580 leprosy he becomes a believer and so we 357 00:16:35,190 --> 00:16:32,020 think that's kind of where the beginning 358 00:16:37,020 --> 00:16:35,200 of the trout is is right there in in a 359 00:16:41,850 --> 00:16:37,030 des of which today would be in southern 360 00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:41,860 Turkey and it's and so I I think I think 361 00:16:48,510 --> 00:16:44,920 the sraw was kind of a conundrum for the 362 00:16:51,420 --> 00:16:48,520 Jews because because for the Jews this 363 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:51,430 this cloth you know wrap the corpse was 364 00:16:57,150 --> 00:16:53,710 covered with blood that makes it unclean 365 00:16:58,770 --> 00:16:57,160 and yeah and yet and yet you wait and so 366 00:17:00,690 --> 00:16:58,780 much like well wait a minute Jesus was 367 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:00,700 dead but now he's not so is this thing 368 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:03,250 clean or was it not clean and so and so 369 00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:05,050 we don't know what you know so I think 370 00:17:10,429 --> 00:17:07,660 that he even though they they treasured 371 00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:10,439 it it really wasn't gonna be a very good 372 00:17:17,069 --> 00:17:14,260 evangelization tool to reach the treats 373 00:17:19,380 --> 00:17:17,079 that the the unbelieving Jews so I think 374 00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:19,390 they were happy to send it off to the 375 00:17:24,540 --> 00:17:21,520 Gentiles who would probably figure out 376 00:17:27,910 --> 00:17:24,550 how to use it oh wow got a problematic 377 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:27,920 forum I got it ha that's interesting 378 00:17:34,570 --> 00:17:31,610 were there ever any miracles noted to 379 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:34,580 take place around the the shroud well 380 00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:36,410 you have the you have AB Garr which was 381 00:17:41,730 --> 00:17:38,240 the first miracle who was the king was 382 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:41,740 healed you have during the early history 383 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:45,170 many of the people in that both in in 384 00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:47,330 Odessa and then later on when it moved 385 00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:49,310 to Constantinople 386 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:51,830 a tribute you know winning of battles 387 00:17:58,420 --> 00:17:55,090 and stuff to to having to having the 388 00:18:01,330 --> 00:17:58,430 kind of the influence or protection of 389 00:18:03,250 --> 00:18:01,340 the shroud and and it's but I always 390 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:03,260 tell people there are there are miracles 391 00:18:10,750 --> 00:18:06,250 of faith that happened every single day 392 00:18:14,530 --> 00:18:10,760 with the shroud and it's and it's so I 393 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:14,540 mean I I really do you know that and 394 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:16,730 have experienced that over the 30 years 395 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:18,770 I've been lecturing on it I I know that 396 00:18:23,490 --> 00:18:22,010 it has been a powerful influence to to 397 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:23,500 millions of people 398 00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:26,450 has there been I want to say that I 399 00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:29,840 watched a program that showed an artist 400 00:18:37,150 --> 00:18:32,720 depiction of the shroud hanging 401 00:18:39,010 --> 00:18:37,160 somewhere I I just can't recall where it 402 00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:39,020 was but I want to say like there is 403 00:18:47,020 --> 00:18:43,870 actual historical artwork that showed 404 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:47,030 where this where it traveled or or 405 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:48,410 something along those lines I mean I 406 00:18:57,460 --> 00:18:54,310 well yes you see and in other words all 407 00:18:59,410 --> 00:18:57,470 of your Byzantine icons of Jesus which 408 00:19:00,970 --> 00:18:59,420 which later became the Orthodox Church 409 00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:00,980 if you ever been into an Orthodox Church 410 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:04,070 or an Eastern Rite Catholic Church you 411 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:05,690 know that they're that they're very 412 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:08,570 image centric and there are and there 413 00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:12,410 are icon images for for for every every 414 00:19:18,910 --> 00:19:15,670 feast day you know every saint every 415 00:19:22,990 --> 00:19:18,920 everything and but but all of the icons 416 00:19:26,020 --> 00:19:23,000 of Jesus you know suddenly changed in 417 00:19:27,580 --> 00:19:26,030 the in the early 6th century so for 418 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:27,590 instance if you look at the catacomb 419 00:19:33,010 --> 00:19:30,110 walls or some other or some other 420 00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:33,020 depictions of Jesus prior to the 6th 421 00:19:38,410 --> 00:19:36,590 century depictions of Jesus are all over 422 00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:38,420 the board you see a side view you see 423 00:19:43,780 --> 00:19:41,120 them short hair you see in clean-shaven 424 00:19:47,049 --> 00:19:43,790 but all of a sudden with the discovery 425 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:47,059 of was then known as the as the true 426 00:19:51,460 --> 00:19:49,250 likeness now today we believe it's the 427 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:51,470 same as the shot of turin but then it 428 00:19:58,060 --> 00:19:54,650 was known as the as the true likeness or 429 00:20:00,880 --> 00:19:58,070 the image of Edessa all of a sudden all 430 00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:00,890 of your Byzantine icons of Jesus changed 431 00:20:05,890 --> 00:20:03,590 to long hair full beard large hollow 432 00:20:07,870 --> 00:20:05,900 eyes flattened nose stylistically 433 00:20:10,210 --> 00:20:07,880 looking very similar to what we see on 434 00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:10,220 the Shroud and very similar to what we 435 00:20:19,030 --> 00:20:14,350 know today in fact you know you the the 436 00:20:20,650 --> 00:20:19,040 Byzantine icons of Jesus are iconic you 437 00:20:24,430 --> 00:20:20,660 know you see them in the in the Hagia 438 00:20:27,549 --> 00:20:24,440 Sophia and in Istanbul and which was you 439 00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:27,559 know formerly Constantinople the and so 440 00:20:35,260 --> 00:20:31,280 so this is the so the Shroud is is most 441 00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:35,270 likely the kind of progenitor of all of 442 00:20:42,850 --> 00:20:37,990 the icons of Jesus that that followed 443 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:42,860 know I heard that that a keanu that that 444 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:45,290 child prodigy that painted a picture of 445 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:48,890 Jesus that the image on the Shroud of 446 00:20:55,180 --> 00:20:52,970 Turin was very very accurate to what 447 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:55,190 very similar to what she had painted in 448 00:20:59,470 --> 00:20:56,530 her 449 00:21:00,730 --> 00:20:59,480 principies is that true yeah that yeah 450 00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:00,740 they she was like eight years old and 451 00:21:06,790 --> 00:21:05,120 she painted this image of Christ with 452 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:06,800 the with the with the single exception 453 00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:09,770 that that that her rendition has shorter 454 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:12,080 hair than what we would normally you 455 00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,850 know now he still had like hair but it 456 00:21:17,290 --> 00:21:15,200 was just a little shorter than what we 457 00:21:19,090 --> 00:21:17,300 see which is which is which is which is 458 00:21:27,130 --> 00:21:19,100 proof that they have Hair Salons in 459 00:21:31,060 --> 00:21:27,140 heaven oh if it's called the Prince of 460 00:21:33,070 --> 00:21:31,070 Peace I believe and she paid it when she 461 00:21:33,460 --> 00:21:33,080 was like eight years old and she just 462 00:21:35,980 --> 00:21:33,470 did 463 00:21:38,860 --> 00:21:35,990 she had visits to heaven she even went 464 00:21:41,410 --> 00:21:38,870 missing for a certain amount of time and 465 00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:41,420 was she reported being taken up by 466 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:43,640 angels to heaven and then suddenly she 467 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:46,730 reappeared and she's been painting these 468 00:21:54,370 --> 00:21:53,330 images of Jesus and angels and over here 469 00:21:56,980 --> 00:21:54,380 near Chicago 470 00:21:58,960 --> 00:21:56,990 lives here in Illinois yeah yeah you 471 00:22:02,380 --> 00:21:58,970 know I I think I think what she painted 472 00:22:06,610 --> 00:22:02,390 is is is is very beautiful and of course 473 00:22:10,450 --> 00:22:06,620 if you saw the the the near-death 474 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:10,460 experience of the the winds his name 475 00:22:18,370 --> 00:22:16,010 Todd thank you burp oh the four-year-old 476 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:18,380 kid that died and yes that picture and 477 00:22:22,150 --> 00:22:20,510 said that's that's that's what Jesus 478 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:22,160 looked like so it's kind of confirmed 479 00:22:25,390 --> 00:22:23,690 but then other I've read other 480 00:22:27,220 --> 00:22:25,400 near-death experiences that people have 481 00:22:30,250 --> 00:22:27,230 encountered Jesus in this hair is longer 482 00:22:32,770 --> 00:22:30,260 and and yes and and of course you have 483 00:22:35,230 --> 00:22:32,780 the Divine Mercy image which of the hair 484 00:22:37,630 --> 00:22:35,240 is longer and very similar to the Shroud 485 00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:37,640 and yet and yet you know longer so I I 486 00:22:41,530 --> 00:22:39,110 don't want to paint I don't want to 487 00:22:47,050 --> 00:22:41,540 place too much stock in in in in one 488 00:22:49,770 --> 00:22:47,060 person's you know a view of of Jesus but 489 00:22:52,780 --> 00:22:49,780 it does but but but but her her 490 00:22:55,030 --> 00:22:52,790 description and her painting certainly 491 00:22:57,970 --> 00:22:55,040 is you know corresponds very well with 492 00:23:04,150 --> 00:22:57,980 the Shroud right yeah quite amazing 493 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:04,160 stuff thank goodness no bottom here up 494 00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:05,210 honey but we're getting close to the 495 00:23:09,010 --> 00:23:06,740 bottom of the hour break I was gonna say 496 00:23:11,740 --> 00:23:09,020 that maybe Russ could mention his 497 00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:11,750 website yeah well pretty well go to 498 00:23:18,420 --> 00:23:13,910 break right after that yeah well my main 499 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:18,430 website is it is Shroud encounter calm 500 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:22,850 okay okay you can't so I have a Facebook 501 00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:25,130 page also you know can you just search 502 00:23:30,430 --> 00:23:26,510 for shot encounter you'll find my 503 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:30,440 Facebook page as well okay well we just 504 00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:32,330 got a few seconds before that I didn't 505 00:23:38,260 --> 00:23:34,820 want you to get that's all good his 506 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:38,270 website very nice site love it you know 507 00:23:42,490 --> 00:23:40,010 that's weird as I didn't know that you 508 00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:42,500 came in May I mean I go every Sunday but 509 00:23:46,330 --> 00:23:44,000 I guess I didn't really bought they 510 00:23:49,930 --> 00:23:46,340 didn't mention it I mean I'm religiously 511 00:23:51,130 --> 00:23:49,940 there every Sunday oh well it's just so 512 00:23:56,340 --> 00:23:51,140 you're so you're saying you weren't 513 00:24:01,890 --> 00:23:58,420 let's we'll take our break we'll be 514 00:24:07,690 --> 00:24:04,270 well it's great to be back with rusty oh 515 00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:07,700 and uh Heidi and so basically though 516 00:24:12,910 --> 00:24:10,760 Russ when they did all these varying 517 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:12,920 tests on the Shroud it had the same kind 518 00:24:19,180 --> 00:24:15,410 of finding as it did with the tilma that 519 00:24:20,980 --> 00:24:19,190 there was no actual pigment or tracing 520 00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:20,990 or anything of that nature found on the 521 00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:23,840 Shroud yeah that is the most significant 522 00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:25,760 finding of the Shroud project is that 523 00:24:29,950 --> 00:24:27,830 all the tests confirm that there is no 524 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:29,960 visible trace of any kind of paint ink 525 00:24:35,230 --> 00:24:33,050 dye pigmentation or staying there are no 526 00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:35,240 artistic substances on the cloth to 527 00:24:43,420 --> 00:24:40,640 account for the image and in fact no no 528 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:43,430 no in fact the you know you know one of 529 00:24:47,740 --> 00:24:45,770 the most intriguing attributes of the of 530 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:47,750 the shot image is that it is that it is 531 00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:51,050 that it affects only the top one to two 532 00:24:59,500 --> 00:24:55,760 micro fibers of the of the linen or of 533 00:25:01,990 --> 00:24:59,510 Annie and that means not not threads but 534 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:02,000 fibers each thread is the made up of 535 00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:04,250 about 200 fibers so in other words this 536 00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:08,150 image this image resides on less than 1% 537 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:11,120 of a single thread so really superficial 538 00:25:16,690 --> 00:25:14,450 yeah oh absolutely absolutely so so so 539 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:16,700 when you look at the Shroud the first 540 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:18,770 thing you'll notice are a series of 541 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:22,130 burns and patches from a fire in 1532 542 00:25:27,670 --> 00:25:25,730 they are very very prominent and there's 543 00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:27,680 scorch marks so the image kind of looked 544 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:29,990 appears to lie between the set of 545 00:25:34,150 --> 00:25:32,210 parallel lines and those are nothing 546 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:34,160 more than burns and patches and scorch 547 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:36,410 marks from that fire and then it was 548 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:37,970 doused with water so you have a pattern 549 00:25:42,340 --> 00:25:40,970 of water stains and it were just course 550 00:25:45,310 --> 00:25:42,350 there's a whole pattern of bloodstains 551 00:25:47,620 --> 00:25:45,320 now if if if you were to flip the cloth 552 00:25:49,390 --> 00:25:47,630 over you would see all that you'd see 553 00:25:51,310 --> 00:25:49,400 the burns you see the water stains you 554 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:51,320 see the bloodstains but the one thing 555 00:25:55,270 --> 00:25:53,090 you would not see is the image of the 556 00:25:59,260 --> 00:25:55,280 man because it because it is a purely 557 00:26:01,390 --> 00:25:59,270 superficial phenomenon and so in and so 558 00:26:04,030 --> 00:26:01,400 you know when you're did they either/or 559 00:26:06,250 --> 00:26:04,040 proposition with the shroud is that 560 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:06,260 either is the authentic bro shot of 561 00:26:10,210 --> 00:26:08,690 Jesus or it's not and if it's not 562 00:26:11,980 --> 00:26:10,220 willing it must be the work of an artist 563 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:11,990 and if that's the case well then what 564 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:14,130 kind of artistic process is this 565 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:17,210 that could be that can be so superficial 566 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:19,530 leaving an image that is basically 567 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:21,570 uniform and intensity top to bottom 568 00:26:26,150 --> 00:26:24,510 front to back and you mean because 569 00:26:28,010 --> 00:26:26,160 because when you look at the Shroud 570 00:26:31,610 --> 00:26:28,020 you're looking at an image of about a 5 571 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:31,620 foot 10 crucified man both the frontal 572 00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:34,650 image and the dorsal image so you have 573 00:26:38,510 --> 00:26:36,510 the whole front of the man you have to 574 00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:38,520 hold back image of the man because 575 00:26:44,690 --> 00:26:41,310 because this this 14 foot long linen 576 00:26:48,650 --> 00:26:44,700 cloth in was basically enveloped him 577 00:26:50,990 --> 00:26:48,660 lengthwise and so and so this is you 578 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:51,000 know there's so when you compare it to 579 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:54,410 art it stands absolutely um 580 00:27:00,350 --> 00:26:56,850 alone there's there's there's nothing 581 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:00,360 before it there's nothing after it there 582 00:27:07,550 --> 00:27:03,570 and and so it's just this it's a 583 00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:07,560 singular unique thing that really is 584 00:27:13,340 --> 00:27:10,260 either the either the greatest hoax ever 585 00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:13,350 perpetrated or it's the most important 586 00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:15,360 artifact on the planet it's one of the 587 00:27:20,780 --> 00:27:18,150 two wasn't there like a big question of 588 00:27:24,350 --> 00:27:20,790 religious forgery was a big thing way 589 00:27:27,230 --> 00:27:24,360 back when when the Shroud was said to 590 00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:27,240 have come to light is that been the 591 00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:29,400 biggest hurdle to try to get some 592 00:27:35,660 --> 00:27:33,600 understanding of it proving that it's 593 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:35,670 it's the real deal because of the the 594 00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:36,930 amount of forgeries that were out there 595 00:27:41,420 --> 00:27:39,510 of religious artifacts well the 596 00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:41,430 interesting thing is that there's been 597 00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:44,580 about about fifty two copies of the 598 00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:48,150 Shroud made and every single one of them 599 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:50,940 is an obvious copy they're obviously 600 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:54,090 made by paint and or other pigments and 601 00:28:00,440 --> 00:27:57,450 dyes and in fact most of these copies 602 00:28:03,670 --> 00:28:00,450 have actually been touched to the Shroud 603 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:03,680 of Turin as a way of sanctifying it and 604 00:28:08,090 --> 00:28:06,450 you know it's like having I mean for 605 00:28:10,850 --> 00:28:08,100 instance if you had a if you had a 606 00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:10,860 baseball card with Babe Ruth on it one 607 00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:12,480 was signed and the other one wasn't 608 00:28:18,620 --> 00:28:15,720 which one would you rather have and so 609 00:28:22,610 --> 00:28:18,630 so bite so by touching it to the shroud 610 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:22,620 itself the copy becomes a a relic in and 611 00:28:27,779 --> 00:28:25,170 of itself and then again and then and 612 00:28:31,049 --> 00:28:27,789 the usually a document is is 613 00:28:33,930 --> 00:28:31,059 crafted by the by the but by the 614 00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:33,940 Cardinal and it's and it's signed I'm 615 00:28:38,219 --> 00:28:35,950 you know you know verifying that this 616 00:28:41,009 --> 00:28:38,229 cloth that that this copy has in fact 617 00:28:43,919 --> 00:28:41,019 touched the touch the authentic Perla 618 00:28:46,580 --> 00:28:43,929 shroud and but but none of those copies 619 00:28:53,729 --> 00:28:46,590 would ever be seen as being anything but 620 00:28:58,379 --> 00:28:53,739 copies and so the so again the the 621 00:29:00,049 --> 00:28:58,389 Shroud stands unique and it's and you're 622 00:29:04,349 --> 00:29:00,059 right there certainly were you know all 623 00:29:08,729 --> 00:29:04,359 kinds of you know you know things going 624 00:29:12,180 --> 00:29:08,739 on with you know various alleged relics 625 00:29:14,909 --> 00:29:12,190 you know the bones of so-and-so and of 626 00:29:19,409 --> 00:29:14,919 course you know how do you know and and 627 00:29:21,899 --> 00:29:19,419 but but but certainly now one of the you 628 00:29:24,060 --> 00:29:21,909 know one of the you know one of our 629 00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:24,070 biggest obstacles is is the fact that 630 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:26,529 the shroud was carbon dated in 1988 and 631 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:30,369 they said it had a date range of 1260 to 632 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:34,210 13 90 so you know so I go so according 633 00:29:39,659 --> 00:29:37,330 to them it is medieval but then we find 634 00:29:41,820 --> 00:29:39,669 out that they that that they were 635 00:29:43,979 --> 00:29:41,830 supposed to cut three samples from three 636 00:29:46,409 --> 00:29:43,989 different locations on the cloth but but 637 00:29:49,289 --> 00:29:46,419 but they didn't do that what did they do 638 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:49,299 they cut one sample from the outside 639 00:29:55,349 --> 00:29:52,090 corner edge exactly would have been held 640 00:29:57,719 --> 00:29:55,359 and handled hundreds of times and now 641 00:30:00,450 --> 00:29:57,729 there is reason to believe that that 642 00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:00,460 corner has been subjected to some kind 643 00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:02,470 of manipulation some kind of medieval 644 00:30:09,239 --> 00:30:05,049 reweave or some kind of or some kind of 645 00:30:11,779 --> 00:30:09,249 repair so now yeah so so now we don't 646 00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:11,789 even know what we what we dated you know 647 00:30:17,549 --> 00:30:14,289 because because they only cut one sample 648 00:30:19,619 --> 00:30:17,559 instead of three and so now the latest 649 00:30:23,159 --> 00:30:19,629 dating research came out of Padua 650 00:30:26,399 --> 00:30:23,169 University in Italy in 2013 and they 651 00:30:31,049 --> 00:30:26,409 were looking at at samples of other 652 00:30:33,089 --> 00:30:31,059 linens of a of a known age about a dozen 653 00:30:34,979 --> 00:30:33,099 different pieces of linen from the 654 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:34,989 current era thousand years old two 655 00:30:38,970 --> 00:30:36,970 thousand years old all the way back to 656 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:38,980 five thousand years old a piece of an 657 00:30:42,850 --> 00:30:40,610 Egyptian mummy craw 658 00:30:46,180 --> 00:30:42,860 and they assessed the rate of chemical 659 00:30:49,299 --> 00:30:46,190 and mechanical decay in these other 660 00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:49,309 linens you know and then and then 661 00:30:54,250 --> 00:30:52,159 compared fibers from the shroud and by 662 00:30:58,960 --> 00:30:54,260 comparison they determined that the 663 00:31:03,220 --> 00:30:58,970 shroud had a date range of 280 BC to 220 664 00:31:04,750 --> 00:31:03,230 ad about a 500 500 year range with 665 00:31:06,190 --> 00:31:04,760 first-century right in the middle so 666 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:06,200 it's like well who's right and who's 667 00:31:12,269 --> 00:31:10,130 wrong and and so which which always 668 00:31:15,700 --> 00:31:12,279 brings me back to the historical trail 669 00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:15,710 because because you see I can I can 670 00:31:21,060 --> 00:31:19,220 prove definitively that the that that 671 00:31:23,620 --> 00:31:21,070 the shroud was stolen from 672 00:31:26,830 --> 00:31:23,630 Constantinople in 1204 673 00:31:29,470 --> 00:31:26,840 now 1204 is already older than the 674 00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:29,480 oldest carbon date of 1260 and it didn't 675 00:31:33,070 --> 00:31:31,700 just get there in 1204 it had been there 676 00:31:36,340 --> 00:31:33,080 for hundreds of years 677 00:31:38,769 --> 00:31:36,350 stop sir so so here's what I know I know 678 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:38,779 the carbon date is wrong I just don't 679 00:31:42,430 --> 00:31:40,730 know how wrong you know I can't 680 00:31:47,370 --> 00:31:42,440 necessarily prove its first century but 681 00:31:50,139 --> 00:31:47,380 I know that that carbon date is wrong I 682 00:31:51,820 --> 00:31:50,149 think that's that I know I said I 683 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:51,830 remember when that first come up but 684 00:31:56,350 --> 00:31:53,570 with the was there also something about 685 00:31:59,080 --> 00:31:56,360 pollens that if I'm Middle Eastern 686 00:32:02,139 --> 00:31:59,090 pollens ah yeah yeah there's a there's a 687 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:02,149 whole pattern of pollens on the on the 688 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:04,130 shroud that you know pollen from plants 689 00:32:09,129 --> 00:32:07,130 are only grow in in Israel and and in 690 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:09,139 and other plants that only grow in 691 00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:11,210 Turkey that that seems to corroborate 692 00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:14,710 the the the presumed historical trail 693 00:32:21,220 --> 00:32:18,260 you know - what a vanilla mean was the 694 00:32:23,919 --> 00:32:21,230 leading botanist in in Israel wrote 695 00:32:28,269 --> 00:32:23,929 seven books on the on the flowers of 696 00:32:30,220 --> 00:32:28,279 Palestine and and and in he's Jewish and 697 00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:30,230 his and his eighth book was called 698 00:32:35,230 --> 00:32:33,200 botany of the shroud and he is he's 699 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:35,240 absolutely certain from the standpoint 700 00:32:40,509 --> 00:32:38,330 of a botanist that that cloth originated 701 00:32:43,779 --> 00:32:40,519 within a twenty kilometer radius of 702 00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:43,789 Jerusalem well I'd say that sounds 703 00:32:51,460 --> 00:32:49,760 pretty good obviously the shroud the 704 00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:51,470 shroud has a history obviously from at 705 00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:54,110 least 650 onwards that's well document 706 00:32:58,810 --> 00:32:56,049 so it's certainly hundreds of years 707 00:33:01,870 --> 00:32:58,820 prior to the you know the carbon dating 708 00:33:04,090 --> 00:33:01,880 they did at the edge but to me Russ it's 709 00:33:05,770 --> 00:33:04,100 kind of I don't mean be pious about it 710 00:33:07,390 --> 00:33:05,780 but it seems to me that there is 711 00:33:09,370 --> 00:33:07,400 something the miraculous factor in the 712 00:33:11,169 --> 00:33:09,380 tilma of juan diego that has the same 713 00:33:13,510 --> 00:33:11,179 format of having no pigment or no 714 00:33:16,450 --> 00:33:13,520 tracing and maybe that's just the way 715 00:33:21,070 --> 00:33:16,460 divine objects or manifests it or 716 00:33:23,710 --> 00:33:21,080 something because their doctor say you 717 00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:23,720 know well I'm just saying I don't really 718 00:33:29,260 --> 00:33:26,480 know a whole lot about the the tilma I 719 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:29,270 mean I've certainly know some but but I 720 00:33:34,330 --> 00:33:31,010 don't I don't try to be an expert on 721 00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:34,340 that oh no no I'm not saying I'm one 722 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:36,049 either but I talked to people that were 723 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:38,450 and and at Sandia Labs you're not gonna 724 00:33:42,970 --> 00:33:40,970 get a better testing lab a physical 725 00:33:44,830 --> 00:33:42,980 testing lab in the world than that and 726 00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:44,840 they put electron microscopes on it 727 00:33:49,450 --> 00:33:47,750 there was no tracing no pigment no 728 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:49,460 nothing it was a superficial image 729 00:33:54,909 --> 00:33:53,210 similar to the shrouds signing both of 730 00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:54,919 them seem like certainly a very 731 00:34:01,030 --> 00:33:58,880 miraculous objects but I'm glad that 732 00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:01,040 they did the carbon dating later and and 733 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:03,350 the updates of 2013 and what-have-you 734 00:34:07,270 --> 00:34:05,690 because everybody was throwing rocks at 735 00:34:09,730 --> 00:34:07,280 the idea of the shroud for a long time 736 00:34:14,649 --> 00:34:09,740 or were that I'm you know yeah I want to 737 00:34:18,190 --> 00:34:14,659 talk everything down but October 9 738 00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:18,200 October fact I think it was a Friday the 739 00:34:27,820 --> 00:34:22,310 13th in October of 88 was not a good day 740 00:34:30,369 --> 00:34:27,830 for the shroud let me but but you know 741 00:34:33,609 --> 00:34:30,379 what's interesting is that is it st. 742 00:34:36,430 --> 00:34:33,619 Jude what is very much involved in the 743 00:34:39,099 --> 00:34:36,440 story of Apgar who then the st. Jude 744 00:34:41,619 --> 00:34:39,109 took the shroud to Edessa along with 745 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:41,629 along with the AB gars messenger and 746 00:34:45,369 --> 00:34:44,690 whenever you see an icon image of Saint 747 00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:45,379 Jude 748 00:34:51,460 --> 00:34:48,800 notice that on his chest is a is the 749 00:34:54,070 --> 00:34:51,470 face image of Jesus that goes all the 750 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:54,080 way that goes all the way back to the 751 00:35:01,240 --> 00:34:57,650 abbe gar story so st. Jude is very much 752 00:35:03,790 --> 00:35:01,250 involved in the Indus Road story and I 753 00:35:06,910 --> 00:35:03,800 just think it's funny that that Saint 754 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:06,920 Jude is is is is known as the patron 755 00:35:13,330 --> 00:35:07,850 saint of 756 00:35:15,550 --> 00:35:13,340 me fly you in October of 88 the shroud 757 00:35:17,650 --> 00:35:15,560 was a lost cause but I can tell you st. 758 00:35:20,740 --> 00:35:17,660 Jude has been on the case because it's 759 00:35:23,140 --> 00:35:20,750 not a lost cause anymore well I'm glad 760 00:35:25,810 --> 00:35:23,150 to hear that I sure AM and you know that 761 00:35:28,930 --> 00:35:25,820 that's what you know it does of course I 762 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:28,940 feel fortunate of experience very 763 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:30,410 strange things in the church you were a 764 00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:33,650 presenter at in May I mean I you know I 765 00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:36,020 had something happen every six months 766 00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:38,510 that's very kind of reassuring and I 767 00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:42,320 guess God loves northeastern salesmen ah 768 00:35:48,940 --> 00:35:47,270 yes Oh promotion e salesman but but and 769 00:35:50,050 --> 00:35:48,950 I'm not the only one that experiences 770 00:35:51,610 --> 00:35:50,060 that down there that was a heck of a 771 00:35:52,810 --> 00:35:51,620 church wasn't then you think oh it's 772 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:52,820 beautiful it's great 773 00:36:01,660 --> 00:35:56,690 I get twice kaity we get x one 774 00:36:03,790 --> 00:36:01,670 frequently 2500 per service wow that's 775 00:36:06,130 --> 00:36:03,800 nice no they have I have what four 776 00:36:08,020 --> 00:36:06,140 masses on Sunday well you have it you 777 00:36:10,660 --> 00:36:08,030 have a huge campus I was actually I 778 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:10,670 think I was in the gym right where I 779 00:36:17,140 --> 00:36:14,690 presented we livin in the church yeah 780 00:36:19,090 --> 00:36:17,150 you were in the gym yeah that's uh 781 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:19,100 no it's Oh Heidi they got a seven 782 00:36:23,070 --> 00:36:20,450 o'clock at nine o'clock at eleven 783 00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:23,080 o'clock in a four o'clock mass and 784 00:36:30,430 --> 00:36:25,910 they're all they're all wall-to-wall and 785 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:30,440 I that's amazing well I'm kind of uh 786 00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,810 I've got you know everybody's got bats 787 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:34,400 in their belfry to some extent I don't 788 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:36,410 like crowd scenes and being elbow to 789 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:38,450 elbow with people I I never could handle 790 00:36:42,670 --> 00:36:39,170 nor 791 00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:42,680 New Orleans Mardi Gras for that and but 792 00:36:48,190 --> 00:36:43,310 any rate 793 00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:48,200 well frequently I would sometimes 794 00:36:51,790 --> 00:36:49,700 Spencer when he hit mask we could get a 795 00:36:54,670 --> 00:36:51,800 seat or not but a lot of times there's 796 00:36:56,740 --> 00:36:54,680 overflow into the outside of the church 797 00:36:59,350 --> 00:36:56,750 itself and then to the lobby in front of 798 00:37:02,020 --> 00:36:59,360 it and I'm out there with the crying 799 00:37:03,490 --> 00:37:02,030 babies and the you know the late comers 800 00:37:05,290 --> 00:37:03,500 because you always have an overflow 801 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:05,300 because I can't stand being armpit to 802 00:37:10,510 --> 00:37:08,930 armpit somebody great and but know that 803 00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:10,520 it's a heck of a campus tidy it's 804 00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:13,070 probably easy sakers and it's just 805 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:15,200 beautiful beautiful place but it does 806 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:16,610 have a replica of the Shroud honor 807 00:37:27,940 --> 00:37:24,490 but I don't know I guess it just tickles 808 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:27,950 me because Russell you know all these 809 00:37:31,780 --> 00:37:30,170 naysayers and all that stuff they you 810 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:31,790 know they think they know everything and 811 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:33,890 if they can't explain it then it can't 812 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:37,570 exist you know the cat their egos are so 813 00:37:42,430 --> 00:37:40,970 inflated they can't grasp the fact that 814 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:42,440 they there's some knowledge they just 815 00:37:46,170 --> 00:37:44,450 don't have big us don't have and it just 816 00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:46,180 tickles me that you've been able to find 817 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:51,230 baited results really yeah I think the 818 00:37:58,330 --> 00:37:54,770 the Shroud is a is a marvelous mystery 819 00:38:02,020 --> 00:37:58,340 and you know I have a feeling it's 820 00:38:03,790 --> 00:38:02,030 always going to be a mystery yet and 821 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:03,800 that's just fine with me 822 00:38:08,530 --> 00:38:06,890 you know there III tell people you know 823 00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:08,540 I've this I have this presentation I do 824 00:38:13,390 --> 00:38:10,400 called seven secrets of the sacred 825 00:38:16,590 --> 00:38:13,400 shroud and and and and one of the 826 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:16,600 secrets in there is is is is this like 827 00:38:23,740 --> 00:38:21,050 if we were to if we were to sudden let's 828 00:38:27,070 --> 00:38:23,750 say the Shroud of Turin didn't exist and 829 00:38:29,890 --> 00:38:27,080 and they and they were excavating in 830 00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:29,900 Jerusalem somewhere and they found st. 831 00:38:35,590 --> 00:38:33,200 Peter's tomb and in st. Peter's tomb was 832 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:35,600 this was this was this linen shroud that 833 00:38:40,450 --> 00:38:37,970 they realized was the shroud of Jesus 834 00:38:42,610 --> 00:38:40,460 and they open it so so in other words 835 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:42,620 it's it was it was it was not removed 836 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:44,690 from its archaeological context it was 837 00:38:48,850 --> 00:38:46,850 found right there in Jerusalem and they 838 00:38:51,490 --> 00:38:48,860 opened it up now I hit now I'll just 839 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:51,500 pause right there you see all of the 840 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:54,010 deep things of God are all mysteries 841 00:38:59,470 --> 00:38:56,690 everything in other words I tell past 842 00:39:01,930 --> 00:38:59,480 people can can anyone explain how how 843 00:39:02,530 --> 00:39:01,940 someone feeds 5,000 people with a boys 844 00:39:05,110 --> 00:39:02,540 lunch 845 00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:05,120 how does someone calm a storm with a 846 00:39:09,460 --> 00:39:07,460 simple command you know how does someone 847 00:39:13,450 --> 00:39:09,470 how does someone you know heal someone 848 00:39:15,670 --> 00:39:13,460 who's been who's been a paralytic all of 849 00:39:17,470 --> 00:39:15,680 his life I mean in me you know we call 850 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:17,480 the miracles but really they're all 851 00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:20,090 mysteries all the deep things of God are 852 00:39:25,570 --> 00:39:22,880 all mysteries so wouldn't it be wouldn't 853 00:39:27,580 --> 00:39:25,580 it wouldn't it make sense that the that 854 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:27,590 the burroughs Shroud of Jesus if we were 855 00:39:30,940 --> 00:39:29,930 just to find it you know in Jerusalem 856 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:30,950 today 857 00:39:35,319 --> 00:39:33,290 would we open it up we wouldn't be able 858 00:39:37,540 --> 00:39:35,329 to figure it out it would be a mystery 859 00:39:40,270 --> 00:39:37,550 because this cloth would be the cloth 860 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:40,280 that not only wrapped him not only crap 861 00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:42,770 wrapped his crucified body but more 862 00:39:47,290 --> 00:39:44,480 importantly wrapped his resurrection 863 00:39:49,450 --> 00:39:47,300 body and I'm not saying and you see the 864 00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:49,460 fact that the shroud remains a mystery 865 00:39:55,210 --> 00:39:52,880 is a huge support for its authenticity 866 00:39:56,859 --> 00:39:55,220 because I tell people all the time you 867 00:39:58,359 --> 00:39:56,869 know if the shroud was an obvious work 868 00:40:00,430 --> 00:39:58,369 of art we would have figured that out a 869 00:40:02,380 --> 00:40:00,440 hundred years ago only it seizes the 870 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:02,390 magnifying glass yep there's the paint 871 00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:05,810 let's go I mean I mean I mean so I mean 872 00:40:10,890 --> 00:40:08,480 so the yeah I think this is a this is a 873 00:40:14,290 --> 00:40:10,900 huge proof point for its authenticity 874 00:40:18,540 --> 00:40:14,300 well we have a question out of the chat 875 00:40:21,569 --> 00:40:18,550 room by Gino who's asking with a date of 876 00:40:26,890 --> 00:40:21,579 1260 could the Shroud be an image 877 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:26,900 potentially of a knight Templar there 878 00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:30,530 are theories that that that allege that 879 00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:33,200 that that the Shroud is the is the image 880 00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:37,760 of jacque de Molay which was one of the 881 00:40:45,730 --> 00:40:40,000 Templars that was burned at the stake in 882 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:45,740 in in 13 in 1307 883 00:40:56,650 --> 00:40:50,210 I'm sorry 1314 the the Templars were 884 00:41:03,040 --> 00:40:56,660 were taken down on and again Friday the 885 00:41:05,530 --> 00:41:03,050 13th October in in in 1307 15,000 of 886 00:41:07,569 --> 00:41:05,540 them were rounded up in France they were 887 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:07,579 all put in prison about half of them 888 00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:10,010 were killed and then and then the and 889 00:41:14,620 --> 00:41:11,630 then the two leaders of the tempers 890 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:14,630 Jacques de Molay and Geoffrey de 891 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:16,490 Chartres ney were in prison for seven 892 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:18,050 years and they were finally burned at 893 00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:20,930 the stake in 1314 well there are some 894 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:22,609 people that would say that either that 895 00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:24,530 alleges as a theory out there that this 896 00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:26,750 is the image of Jacques de Molay well 897 00:41:30,970 --> 00:41:29,119 the only problem with that is is that is 898 00:41:34,450 --> 00:41:30,980 that the image that's on the Shroud is 899 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:34,460 is it is an image of a man who's dead so 900 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:37,490 it's so it doesn't seem likely that it's 901 00:41:42,350 --> 00:41:39,530 the image of Jacques de Molay 902 00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:42,360 who we know was burned at the stake and 903 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:46,020 so so in me clearly we have an image on 904 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:48,210 the shroud of a of a man who was 905 00:41:56,450 --> 00:41:51,450 crucified Jacques de Molay was not 906 00:41:59,330 --> 00:41:56,460 crucified right and and you know the 907 00:42:02,900 --> 00:41:59,340 fact that we have a side wound with with 908 00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:02,910 with a with a with a separation of blood 909 00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:05,820 and blood serum indicates that this is 910 00:42:11,060 --> 00:42:08,070 post-mortem blood flow or blood that 911 00:42:13,310 --> 00:42:11,070 flowed after death and so we feel pretty 912 00:42:17,150 --> 00:42:13,320 certain and plus we have the evidence 913 00:42:19,010 --> 00:42:17,160 also on the body of rigor mortis which 914 00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:19,020 of course is not going to occur unless 915 00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:22,710 you're dead and so there's no way that 916 00:42:29,870 --> 00:42:25,680 this could also be the shroud of Jacques 917 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:29,880 de Molay it's and so it just doesn't fit 918 00:42:35,930 --> 00:42:32,730 what we know about about the history oh 919 00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:35,940 but but it would also it has seven year 920 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:39,510 700 year history before he died I mean 921 00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:41,850 well exactly exactly so there's always 922 00:42:44,990 --> 00:42:43,710 people that that you know they're there 923 00:42:47,060 --> 00:42:45,000 you know people are trying to figure out 924 00:42:50,570 --> 00:42:47,070 well let's say the carbon date is right 925 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:50,580 well then who then then then how could 926 00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:53,130 this shroud have originated in that 927 00:42:59,660 --> 00:42:56,040 timeframe of you know the you know the 928 00:43:02,090 --> 00:42:59,670 12 or 1300 s and so so you have people 929 00:43:03,980 --> 00:43:02,100 that are that are accepting of the 930 00:43:05,570 --> 00:43:03,990 carbon date and so now they and so 931 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:05,580 they're having to figure out you know 932 00:43:13,610 --> 00:43:11,130 who could have done it the the but again 933 00:43:16,210 --> 00:43:13,620 as as as you said I can definitively 934 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:16,220 prove that the shroud was stolen from 935 00:43:23,050 --> 00:43:20,130 Constantinople in 1204 and and and and 936 00:43:27,860 --> 00:43:23,060 that same cloth arrived in 937 00:43:30,140 --> 00:43:27,870 Constantinople in 944 so obviously we've 938 00:43:33,020 --> 00:43:30,150 got a problem here with it with the with 939 00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:33,030 this job having originated anywhere near 940 00:43:39,740 --> 00:43:36,710 the the time of the alleged carbon-date 941 00:43:43,070 --> 00:43:39,750 time check did you say that that blood 942 00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:43,080 was tested but the blood on the shroud 943 00:43:49,450 --> 00:43:45,720 has tested it it is it is it is a B 944 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:49,460 blood type it is it is it is human blood 945 00:44:02,710 --> 00:43:50,730 it 946 00:44:05,329 --> 00:44:02,720 is human male DNA but again very very 947 00:44:07,849 --> 00:44:05,339 degraded we couldn't really tell much 948 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:07,859 more than that and it's and right now 949 00:44:11,569 --> 00:44:10,170 although you know people ask me you know 950 00:44:13,849 --> 00:44:11,579 what are some what are some further 951 00:44:16,190 --> 00:44:13,859 tests there that could be done on the 952 00:44:19,819 --> 00:44:16,200 Shroud I'd like to see a lot more DNA 953 00:44:22,130 --> 00:44:19,829 done on it but right but but that that 954 00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:22,140 that is fraught with problems it's good 955 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:23,220 you know because anyone who's ever 956 00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,250 touched to shroud their DNA is on this 957 00:44:32,990 --> 00:44:29,040 route and but but I they're afraid of 958 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:33,000 cloning you know that's exactly right 959 00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:35,970 that's yes that's that's why the church 960 00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,190 is not authorized any additional DNA is 961 00:44:41,810 --> 00:44:40,560 because they are afraid of you know it's 962 00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:41,820 the it's the law of unintended 963 00:44:47,180 --> 00:44:45,089 consequences and it's you know and you 964 00:44:48,740 --> 00:44:47,190 know yeah we got the DNA and then and 965 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:48,750 then someone comes along and steals I 966 00:44:52,250 --> 00:44:50,130 mean there's got to be at least a dozen 967 00:44:54,980 --> 00:44:52,260 books written about someone stealing 968 00:45:08,569 --> 00:44:54,990 blood from the shroud and cloning Jesus 969 00:45:11,569 --> 00:45:08,579 yeah that is but then obviously the idea 970 00:45:13,550 --> 00:45:11,579 with Middle Eastern pollens being you 971 00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:13,560 know on the shroud that would preclude 972 00:45:21,290 --> 00:45:17,849 forgeries and and and and not only is 973 00:45:24,530 --> 00:45:21,300 there pollen but there's also a all over 974 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:24,540 the shroud are microscopic particles of 975 00:45:32,410 --> 00:45:28,170 of limestone but a very specific kind of 976 00:45:34,430 --> 00:45:32,420 limestone travertine aragonite limestone 977 00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:34,440 microscopic particles and this is the 978 00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:37,230 same exact limestone that is common to 979 00:45:44,059 --> 00:45:40,079 the tombs and hills around Jerusalem and 980 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:44,069 oh yeah and so there's also particles of 981 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:46,050 of calcite 982 00:45:52,460 --> 00:45:48,890 now calcite is the common ingredient in 983 00:45:54,980 --> 00:45:52,470 inroad dirt now this calcite was only 984 00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:54,990 found on two locations on the feet and 985 00:45:59,089 --> 00:45:57,359 on the knees it's like what would you 986 00:46:01,069 --> 00:45:59,099 expect from someone who walked in 987 00:46:04,460 --> 00:46:01,079 sandals and fell under the weight of the 988 00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:04,470 cross and so and so you have these 989 00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:08,400 is very you know this this microscopic 990 00:46:12,260 --> 00:46:10,800 data that of course would have would 991 00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:12,270 have would would not even entered into 992 00:46:20,420 --> 00:46:15,060 the mind of some medieval jollies 993 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:20,430 monkeys would have never known there's a 994 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:22,650 question or that the comment posed about 995 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:25,170 Peter being crucified upside down around 996 00:46:32,060 --> 00:46:28,050 the same time frame as Jesus so has that 997 00:46:34,970 --> 00:46:32,070 also been speculated as being well I 998 00:46:37,250 --> 00:46:34,980 would I would say that we we know that 999 00:46:39,050 --> 00:46:37,260 that Peter was crucified upside that 1000 00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:39,060 well we were playing time and I guess if 1001 00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:40,560 you say for centuries yeah because I 1002 00:46:49,010 --> 00:46:43,200 mean Peter was crucified probably around 1003 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:49,020 60 or 70 AD the but but again here's the 1004 00:46:53,930 --> 00:46:51,450 here's the problem with this is that is 1005 00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:53,940 that is that I mean let's say it is the 1006 00:46:59,540 --> 00:46:56,250 Shroud of Peter now all you all you'd 1007 00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,550 have are bloodstains smudges and stains 1008 00:47:04,940 --> 00:47:01,680 of decomposition with a body decomposed 1009 00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:04,950 through the cloth and of the shroud we 1010 00:47:10,579 --> 00:47:07,380 have in it we have an inexplicable image 1011 00:47:14,329 --> 00:47:10,589 that is that is not the result of direct 1012 00:47:16,430 --> 00:47:14,339 contact with the corpse you see the 1013 00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:16,440 direct contact of the corpse only 1014 00:47:22,310 --> 00:47:18,900 explains the blood it does not explain 1015 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:22,320 the image something else is at work with 1016 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:24,570 the with the cause of this image because 1017 00:47:29,540 --> 00:47:27,450 it is completely superficial it is in 1018 00:47:34,370 --> 00:47:29,550 his uniform and intensity top to bottom 1019 00:47:36,890 --> 00:47:34,380 front to back it is it is it it it 1020 00:47:40,099 --> 00:47:36,900 contains distance information which 1021 00:47:42,170 --> 00:47:40,109 means that you can render a 3d likeness 1022 00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:42,180 based on the information in the Shroud 1023 00:47:47,839 --> 00:47:45,599 it is a it is a photo negative image 1024 00:47:51,050 --> 00:47:47,849 which means for some reason it looks 1025 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:51,060 tremendously clearer in a photo negative 1026 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:54,210 than it does on the cup itself and so 1027 00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:56,130 you have all these all these unique 1028 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:00,240 anomalies related to them to the shroud 1029 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:03,690 that literally preclude it being a image 1030 00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:06,210 made from direct contact with the Cork's 1031 00:48:10,609 --> 00:48:08,609 and so what so that leaves people 1032 00:48:12,890 --> 00:48:10,619 speculating well then could it be the 1033 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:12,900 result of the resurrection and of course 1034 00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:15,330 you know you know yeah I mean I'm all in 1035 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:17,470 for that in fact I I think 1036 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:20,170 that the likely cause of the image is 1037 00:48:25,020 --> 00:48:23,290 probably light because yes that's what 1038 00:48:27,060 --> 00:48:25,030 I've heard that speculated before yes 1039 00:48:28,830 --> 00:48:27,070 yeah well because when you think about 1040 00:48:30,810 --> 00:48:28,840 it everything about the shroud is 1041 00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:30,820 perfectly consistent with the gospel 1042 00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:33,310 account regarding all of the all of the 1043 00:48:37,950 --> 00:48:35,470 wounds that Jesus sustained crown of 1044 00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:37,960 thorns singular mockery for the man who 1045 00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:40,510 claimed to be King of the Jews scourging 1046 00:48:44,849 --> 00:48:42,310 all over the body why was he so badly 1047 00:48:46,410 --> 00:48:44,859 scourge just Pontius Pilate didn't think 1048 00:48:48,660 --> 00:48:46,420 it was guilty of a crime worthy of 1049 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:48,670 capital punishment he didn't want to 1050 00:48:52,050 --> 00:48:50,530 kill him and you know the first thing he 1051 00:48:53,870 --> 00:48:52,060 did he's sitting the King Herod Herod 1052 00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:53,880 sent him back and then he tried to trade 1053 00:48:58,920 --> 00:48:56,800 Barabbas and that didn't work and so so 1054 00:49:00,900 --> 00:48:58,930 finally he has him scourge dude with an 1055 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:00,910 inch of his life thinking that when that 1056 00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:03,010 bloodied hunk of a man came walking back 1057 00:49:06,900 --> 00:49:04,720 into the courtyard that maybe they'd say 1058 00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:06,910 well okay I guess we don't have to kill 1059 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:09,250 him so now we have a man who's brutally 1060 00:49:13,770 --> 00:49:11,050 scourge crown of thorns glued on the 1061 00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:13,780 side and and the legs are not broken 1062 00:49:18,599 --> 00:49:15,520 everything consistent with what we know 1063 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:18,609 happened to Jesus and well I tell you 1064 00:49:21,390 --> 00:49:19,570 why I don't mean that Automator 1065 00:49:25,650 --> 00:49:21,400 jeopardize we're coming to our top there 1066 00:49:28,829 --> 00:49:25,660 break okay well it's great to be back 1067 00:49:33,210 --> 00:49:28,839 for us and you know once again mention 1068 00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:33,220 your website again you go to Shroud 1069 00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:36,310 encounter dot-com and you can also 1070 00:49:40,530 --> 00:49:38,710 search for Shroud encounter on Facebook 1071 00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:40,540 and find my Facebook page and if you 1072 00:49:48,650 --> 00:49:42,670 find my Facebook page you should like me 1073 00:49:53,730 --> 00:49:51,839 you know I have a thought it's something 1074 00:49:56,130 --> 00:49:53,740 you mention you're like well you can see 1075 00:49:59,280 --> 00:49:56,140 all the dimensions of you know the body 1076 00:50:02,910 --> 00:49:59,290 that was in the shroud have you guys 1077 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:02,920 ever speculated on the thought of 3d 1078 00:50:08,849 --> 00:50:06,010 printing like the full body you'd like 1079 00:50:12,750 --> 00:50:08,859 to have it there and to see what Christ 1080 00:50:15,210 --> 00:50:12,760 may have seen it seemed like appeared 1081 00:50:16,980 --> 00:50:15,220 like you know they have next to you yeah 1082 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:16,990 that's actually an intriguing thought I 1083 00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:19,450 know that we've done we've done 3d 1084 00:50:26,190 --> 00:50:21,250 rendering and 1085 00:50:34,350 --> 00:50:30,910 print Christ that would be and ever be 1086 00:50:38,050 --> 00:50:34,360 intriguing you have all the dimensions 1087 00:50:39,820 --> 00:50:38,060 Wow I mean just don't make bars of soap 1088 00:50:42,820 --> 00:50:39,830 out of it I hate when there's bars of 1089 00:50:45,490 --> 00:50:42,830 soap of things it's just so weird but I 1090 00:50:48,430 --> 00:50:45,500 mean I think I'd be cool I mean wow 1091 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:48,440 five ten that's the same size as Michael 1092 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:52,250 Jackson but but it would be just so wild 1093 00:50:57,610 --> 00:50:54,650 to be you know looking into potentially 1094 00:51:00,970 --> 00:50:57,620 the face of Christ and what his presence 1095 00:51:02,740 --> 00:51:00,980 was like as a human being I actually 1096 00:51:08,740 --> 00:51:02,750 Heidi I think for that era that was 1097 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:08,750 pretty tall 510 it was it was probably a 1098 00:51:13,630 --> 00:51:10,490 little on the tall side although they've 1099 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:13,640 done they've done excavations that at 1100 00:51:22,750 --> 00:51:20,450 Masada and the bottom the ten or so male 1101 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:22,760 skeletons and they average range from 1102 00:51:28,750 --> 00:51:25,970 from five six to six feet so it doesn't 1103 00:51:30,660 --> 00:51:28,760 seem to be that far out of the dorm well 1104 00:51:33,310 --> 00:51:30,670 I would just go I was just going by the 1105 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:33,320 Spanish conquistadors in st. Augustine 1106 00:51:37,030 --> 00:51:35,570 were like yeah you know what you're 1107 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:37,040 saying I gotta tell you a story on that 1108 00:51:40,810 --> 00:51:39,290 because a lot of people say that you 1109 00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:40,820 know gee it seems like he's really 1110 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:44,510 really tall but you know I I went to a 1111 00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:46,970 lecture one time a it was a it was a 1112 00:51:52,420 --> 00:51:49,910 retired Army colonel and he had been 1113 00:51:55,690 --> 00:51:52,430 stationed in South Korea when he was in 1114 00:51:58,570 --> 00:51:55,700 the army he retired he goes to he goes 1115 00:52:01,360 --> 00:51:58,580 back to school and he gets an academic 1116 00:52:03,610 --> 00:52:01,370 visa to go to North Korea and the one 1117 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:03,620 thing he noticed and in his talk was 1118 00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:06,410 that the average North Korean is about 1119 00:52:11,140 --> 00:52:08,960 four to six inches shorter than the 1120 00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:11,150 South Korean and it's the same culture 1121 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:13,520 and so what is the difference it's all 1122 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:17,810 about nutrition so it's Kim Jong Il is 1123 00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:23,090 making them ill yeah but isn't that 1124 00:52:27,580 --> 00:52:25,310 interesting that the fact that you have 1125 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:27,590 the same culture and their four to six 1126 00:52:34,260 --> 00:52:30,170 inches shorter and it's all and it's all 1127 00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:37,330 started their growth well I'm curious 1128 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:39,200 you said that other bodies have been 1129 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:41,330 excavated from around the same time 1130 00:52:48,610 --> 00:52:45,050 period so they had shrouds on them as as 1131 00:52:50,980 --> 00:52:48,620 well did what I mean did you compare and 1132 00:52:53,830 --> 00:52:50,990 I'd say look at the big difference here 1133 00:52:56,620 --> 00:52:53,840 there's no impression at all of their 1134 00:52:59,080 --> 00:52:56,630 faces on these these old shrouds I mean 1135 00:53:02,320 --> 00:52:59,090 there are no images on them except for 1136 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:02,330 just smudge --is of decomposition there 1137 00:53:07,150 --> 00:53:05,210 are the the the few shrouds and then and 1138 00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,160 some of them are wool some of them are 1139 00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:10,400 just plain are just plain flax linen the 1140 00:53:16,290 --> 00:53:12,160 Shroud is a very distinctive 1141 00:53:19,020 --> 00:53:16,300 three-two-one herringbone pattern weave 1142 00:53:22,990 --> 00:53:19,030 which which is which was very expensive 1143 00:53:26,050 --> 00:53:23,000 at the time doable in first century yet 1144 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:26,060 very expensive and also hence very very 1145 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:27,890 rare and it's interesting what the 1146 00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:30,410 scripture says Joseph of Arimathea a 1147 00:53:36,070 --> 00:53:33,680 rich man purchased a fine linen cloth 1148 00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:36,080 and so everything about everything about 1149 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:37,730 the Shroud of Turin would indicate that 1150 00:53:40,690 --> 00:53:39,050 this is one of the most expensive 1151 00:53:42,460 --> 00:53:40,700 traffic's you could buy at the time 1152 00:53:45,460 --> 00:53:42,470 simply because of the way that it was 1153 00:53:49,060 --> 00:53:45,470 woven now however most often you we do 1154 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:49,070 not find linen shroud or Jewish linen 1155 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:51,530 shrouds because the the Jews for the 1156 00:53:56,500 --> 00:53:53,810 most part used what's called ossuary 1157 00:54:01,300 --> 00:53:56,510 this is this is a bone box Oh so for 1158 00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:01,310 instance in a in a normal funeral the 1159 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:03,710 the body would be placed in a tomb and 1160 00:54:08,500 --> 00:54:06,170 it would be wrapped in a burrow out and 1161 00:54:10,690 --> 00:54:08,510 then they go back into that tomb a year 1162 00:54:13,870 --> 00:54:10,700 or more later and the body would be 1163 00:54:16,030 --> 00:54:13,880 decomposed they take those bones put 1164 00:54:17,980 --> 00:54:16,040 them into a box about a limestone box 1165 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:17,990 about the size of a size of a high 1166 00:54:24,970 --> 00:54:20,930 schooler and they would X on the outside 1167 00:54:26,530 --> 00:54:24,980 of it whose bones these belong to and so 1168 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:26,540 and and then they would stack these 1169 00:54:31,180 --> 00:54:29,090 boxes up inside the tomb so then you 1170 00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:31,190 could have multiple people buried in the 1171 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:33,710 same tomb and but they would take thee 1172 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:36,410 they would take the shroud and and 1173 00:54:41,590 --> 00:54:39,530 dispose of it probably burn it and so 1174 00:54:43,570 --> 00:54:41,600 which is why we almost never find any 1175 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:43,580 Jewish pearl trap you'd find lots of 1176 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:45,370 Egyptian Burroughs routes but 1177 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:47,050 almost never do we find a Jewish burger 1178 00:54:50,820 --> 00:54:49,090 truck in New Orleans don't they kind of 1179 00:54:53,730 --> 00:54:50,830 stack the bodies on like that and they 1180 00:54:55,470 --> 00:54:53,740 kind of cook inside of the the cement 1181 00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:55,480 blocks they put their loved ones in and 1182 00:54:59,370 --> 00:54:57,280 then they throw another body and I mean 1183 00:55:07,950 --> 00:54:59,380 it's just you know the heat down 1184 00:55:09,420 --> 00:55:07,960 actually it's like a condominiums and 1185 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:09,430 they just kind of go to dust and they 1186 00:55:14,610 --> 00:55:11,050 throw somebody else there a few years 1187 00:55:16,380 --> 00:55:14,620 later and right yeah really different is 1188 00:55:19,110 --> 00:55:16,390 a term such a term for what it's called 1189 00:55:20,430 --> 00:55:19,120 but I'm not recall yeah it escapes me 1190 00:55:21,260 --> 00:55:20,440 but I know it's haunted that's all I 1191 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:21,270 know 1192 00:55:30,540 --> 00:55:27,610 family family when family's occupants 1193 00:55:32,850 --> 00:55:30,550 yeah marceline or whatever they call it 1194 00:55:35,310 --> 00:55:32,860 they just melt and go to dust and they 1195 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:35,320 throw grandma on there too and I don't 1196 00:55:41,670 --> 00:55:38,650 know it's just crazy rain down there - 1197 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:41,680 you know range kaskus go float down the 1198 00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:49,330 road well I mean it's not not just a 1199 00:55:56,340 --> 00:55:54,850 wonderful bike it's yours but you know 1200 00:55:58,740 --> 00:55:56,350 the funny thing about I mean I'm glad 1201 00:56:01,980 --> 00:55:58,750 we're having this show on the shroud but 1202 00:56:05,340 --> 00:56:01,990 you know yeah someday we're gonna have a 1203 00:56:13,340 --> 00:56:05,350 show just on the burial industry and the 1204 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:17,790 this is a holy program tonight I think 1205 00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:19,330 he won't buddy up the program with those 1206 00:56:24,300 --> 00:56:22,480 things yeah but now now the rust wasn't 1207 00:56:26,820 --> 00:56:24,310 Hitler chasing around after the Shroud 1208 00:56:29,250 --> 00:56:26,830 at one time yes he was I do a whole 1209 00:56:31,470 --> 00:56:29,260 lecture on that it's called the day the 1210 00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:31,480 Shroud foiled Hitler it deals with the 1211 00:56:36,030 --> 00:56:33,760 seven years that the shroud was taken 1212 00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:36,040 out of Turin to keep it away from him 1213 00:56:45,630 --> 00:56:42,310 and in in 1938 Hitler visited it was in 1214 00:56:49,230 --> 00:56:45,640 May April of 38 hit hit Hitler visited 1215 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:49,240 Italy to meet with Mussolini and one of 1216 00:56:53,490 --> 00:56:51,370 the cities he visited was to read and 1217 00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:53,500 his henchmen were asking a lot of 1218 00:56:58,980 --> 00:56:56,170 questions about about this about this 1219 00:57:01,859 --> 00:56:58,990 mysterious relic that at that time the 1220 00:57:04,109 --> 00:57:01,869 to the king and so the king was a little 1221 00:57:09,390 --> 00:57:04,119 concerned about why Hitler was so 1222 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:09,400 interested in in his relic and so when 1223 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:12,130 when when Hitler invaded Poland a year 1224 00:57:19,770 --> 00:57:17,410 later in September 1st of 1939 the the 1225 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:19,780 king of Italy made plans then to 1226 00:57:26,130 --> 00:57:23,410 secretly move it out of out of Turin to 1227 00:57:28,980 --> 00:57:26,140 a monastery south of Rome about 150 1228 00:57:32,910 --> 00:57:28,990 miles south of Roma monastere the called 1229 00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:32,920 Monte virgin or and it's and it was and 1230 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:36,670 it was hidden inside and an altar that 1231 00:57:44,030 --> 00:57:40,090 was in a in in a choir chapel there at 1232 00:57:47,370 --> 00:57:44,040 the monastery and in and sure enough in 1233 00:57:49,830 --> 00:57:47,380 1943 the Nazis came looking for the 1234 00:57:52,350 --> 00:57:49,840 Shroud in Turin because it seems like 1235 00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:52,360 maybe the wages of war word or the or 1236 00:57:58,920 --> 00:57:55,410 the or the winds of war were shifting 1237 00:58:02,370 --> 00:57:58,930 against the Fuhrer and so he and so he 1238 00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:02,380 needed more power and in so it's and and 1239 00:58:07,650 --> 00:58:04,450 so he must have said go find the shroud 1240 00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:07,660 and so at any rate they came looking for 1241 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:10,210 it in turin and and found it wasn't 1242 00:58:17,310 --> 00:58:13,210 there and then but then the nazis came 1243 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:17,320 looking for it came in in in September 1244 00:58:23,070 --> 00:58:21,130 of 43 and they they they marched up the 1245 00:58:26,070 --> 00:58:23,080 hill to that monastery under cover of 1246 00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:26,080 darkness banged on the door and they and 1247 00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:27,760 they were and they said that they were 1248 00:58:32,670 --> 00:58:30,880 looking for spies well we think they 1249 00:58:34,580 --> 00:58:32,680 were looking for something else and so 1250 00:58:37,050 --> 00:58:34,590 the and so the abbot of the monastery 1251 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:37,060 ordered all of the monks down into that 1252 00:58:42,750 --> 00:58:40,450 choir chapel none of whom knew that the 1253 00:58:44,609 --> 00:58:42,760 shroud was there only the abbot and and 1254 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:44,619 one other part and one of the priests 1255 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:45,970 knew that the shroud was secretly 1256 00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:49,690 encased in that altar and so he was 1257 00:58:53,940 --> 00:58:51,910 hoping that if they that when the Nazis 1258 00:58:55,290 --> 00:58:53,950 got you know finally got to the chapel 1259 00:58:57,210 --> 00:58:55,300 that maybe they'd leave him alone and 1260 00:58:59,460 --> 00:58:57,220 sure enough that's exactly what happened 1261 00:59:01,560 --> 00:58:59,470 as soon as the Nazis got to that choir 1262 00:59:03,690 --> 00:59:01,570 chapel they saw all the monks gathered 1263 00:59:06,420 --> 00:59:03,700 in prayer and one of the Nazis said 1264 00:59:08,940 --> 00:59:06,430 don't bother the monks let him pray and 1265 00:59:10,740 --> 00:59:08,950 so they walked away the weight with the 1266 00:59:12,330 --> 00:59:10,750 shroud was only 20 feet away but they 1267 00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:12,340 walked away empty-handed 1268 00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:15,280 now not finding the shroud nor finding 1269 00:59:23,580 --> 00:59:18,610 any spies and so it's it's just a very 1270 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:23,590 intriguing chapter of shout history wow 1271 00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:25,450 that's amazing actually a priest or a 1272 00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:27,280 priest did mention that story at the 1273 00:59:38,700 --> 00:59:29,290 church you just didn't mention here to 1274 00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:38,710 cheer effect I think it's a great story 1275 00:59:43,710 --> 00:59:41,440 and then the you know I think the most 1276 00:59:46,890 --> 00:59:43,720 important thing about the shroud is the 1277 00:59:48,660 --> 00:59:46,900 is the is the message behind it you know 1278 00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:48,670 because at the end of the day we could 1279 00:59:52,530 --> 00:59:50,650 never prove the shroud absolutely to be 1280 00:59:54,030 --> 00:59:52,540 the shot of Jesus because then he goes 1281 00:59:56,010 --> 00:59:54,040 you know because we don't have the DNA 1282 00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:56,020 of Jesus to match it up with something 1283 00:59:59,490 --> 00:59:58,000 we might extract from the shroud which 1284 01:00:01,830 --> 00:59:59,500 so which is why we could never prove it 1285 01:00:05,070 --> 01:00:01,840 absolutely and we can certainly prove 1286 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:05,080 what it's not and it's but you know and 1287 01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:07,450 and I I have a I have a feeling that 1288 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:09,520 this is why the Shah will always be a 1289 01:00:13,860 --> 01:00:12,010 mystery you see because because I don't 1290 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:13,870 think the shroud was ever meant to be a 1291 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:17,290 substitute for faith you know you know 1292 01:00:20,580 --> 01:00:18,970 the old expression that you can lead a 1293 01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:20,590 horse to water but you can't make them 1294 01:00:24,660 --> 01:00:22,090 drink amen 1295 01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:24,670 I think the Shroud takes you right up to 1296 01:00:31,380 --> 01:00:27,730 the water's edge but it's but just it's 1297 01:00:33,780 --> 01:00:31,390 still gonna take an act of faith to - to 1298 01:00:35,580 --> 01:00:33,790 drink from that living water just leave 1299 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:35,590 it to Kevin to kick them in they'll get 1300 01:00:42,180 --> 01:00:40,210 in there so that's what I think it's all 1301 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:42,190 about I think it's all about a message 1302 01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:45,010 to the to the doubting Thomases of the 1303 01:00:49,890 --> 01:00:47,710 world you know I mean you know my you 1304 01:00:52,740 --> 01:00:49,900 know I mean here's Jamie doubting Thomas 1305 01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:52,750 had every reason to believe you know I 1306 01:00:58,200 --> 01:00:55,930 mean as as you know he wasn't there the 1307 01:01:00,090 --> 01:00:58,210 first night that Jesus appeared in the 1308 01:01:02,580 --> 01:01:00,100 upper room to all the Apostles we don't 1309 01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:02,590 know where Thomas was and so you can 1310 01:01:07,020 --> 01:01:04,960 imagine when Thomas finally does come 1311 01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:07,030 back that everyone ran up to him saying 1312 01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:10,000 Thomas it's true he was here he is alive 1313 01:01:14,550 --> 01:01:12,400 we touched him we broke bread he talked 1314 01:01:16,710 --> 01:01:14,560 about the kingdom it was amazing you 1315 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:16,720 know like where were you and 1316 01:01:22,590 --> 01:01:20,290 you know I'm here Thomas - despite the 1317 01:01:25,860 --> 01:01:22,600 testimony of all of his best friends 1318 01:01:27,870 --> 01:01:25,870 refuses to believe and so and then of 1319 01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:27,880 course a week later Jesus appears again 1320 01:01:31,470 --> 01:01:28,960 in the Upper Room 1321 01:01:33,780 --> 01:01:31,480 this time Thomas is there and the first 1322 01:01:35,940 --> 01:01:33,790 person Jesus speaks to his Thomas and he 1323 01:01:38,850 --> 01:01:35,950 says Thomas come here you can imagine 1324 01:01:40,770 --> 01:01:38,860 Thomas falling at Jesus's feet and then 1325 01:01:42,270 --> 01:01:40,780 Jesus quotes his coach Thomas his own 1326 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:42,280 words back to him he says thrust your 1327 01:01:45,930 --> 01:01:44,050 hand into my side and place your fingers 1328 01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,940 into my nib when it be not faithless but 1329 01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:48,000 believe now at this point 1330 01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:50,770 Thomas forever known as doubting Thomas 1331 01:01:55,170 --> 01:01:53,050 now makes the strongest profession of 1332 01:01:56,700 --> 01:01:55,180 faith in the entire New Testament he 1333 01:01:59,520 --> 01:01:56,710 says my Lord and my god 1334 01:02:01,260 --> 01:01:59,530 but he couldn't do it wouldn't do it was 1335 01:02:03,210 --> 01:02:01,270 unable to do it until he was 1336 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:03,220 face-to-face with the resurrected Christ 1337 01:02:09,330 --> 01:02:06,490 you see that to me is the message of the 1338 01:02:11,310 --> 01:02:09,340 Shroud I mean I mean think I've been 1339 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:11,320 wondering all my life and you know why 1340 01:02:16,230 --> 01:02:14,650 God has preserved it why is not revealed 1341 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:16,240 it through science over the course of 1342 01:02:22,410 --> 01:02:19,210 the 20th century and here we are in the 1343 01:02:25,590 --> 01:02:22,420 21st century and we communicate more 1344 01:02:27,150 --> 01:02:25,600 with images than we do with words and it 1345 01:02:29,370 --> 01:02:27,160 makes me wonder whether this was 1346 01:02:34,830 --> 01:02:29,380 preserved for this time in human history 1347 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:34,840 and yeah so I think you know I think 1348 01:02:44,580 --> 01:02:37,690 it's I think it's very it's very telling 1349 01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:44,590 well you know I have to say coming up to 1350 01:02:59,880 --> 01:02:56,770 our last great having an ID on for this 1351 01:03:03,870 --> 01:02:59,890 show Rosco had mentioned any upcoming 1352 01:03:05,970 --> 01:03:03,880 events you might have or a lecturer well 1353 01:03:09,930 --> 01:03:05,980 I'm gonna be I'm gonna be in the 1354 01:03:12,690 --> 01:03:09,940 Philadelphia area and in in August I'm 1355 01:03:16,860 --> 01:03:12,700 gonna be in Massachusetts and in 1356 01:03:18,930 --> 01:03:16,870 December this is kind of a I I get very 1357 01:03:21,030 --> 01:03:18,940 busy probably starting around 1358 01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:21,040 mid-february and that and that and that 1359 01:03:27,630 --> 01:03:24,690 and that tours building right now and so 1360 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:27,640 but I would just invite people to go to 1361 01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:29,450 the website Shroud encountered 1362 01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:33,050 and it's and just kind of explore that 1363 01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:34,880 site and if anyone's interested in 1364 01:03:38,650 --> 01:03:36,770 having me out to their parish just 1365 01:03:41,380 --> 01:03:38,660 contact me through the through the 1366 01:03:42,790 --> 01:03:41,390 website now tell you and I'll be able to 1367 01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:42,800 send you some information about what I 1368 01:03:47,140 --> 01:03:45,440 do and what's involved awesome and I 1369 01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:47,150 have a question for you and something I 1370 01:03:51,730 --> 01:03:48,950 want to say real quick before the break 1371 01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:51,740 you talked about how people communicate 1372 01:03:56,020 --> 01:03:54,170 more through images now and that was 1373 01:03:57,609 --> 01:03:56,030 something I really stressed in a couple 1374 01:04:00,670 --> 01:03:57,619 of my books I when I called picture 1375 01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:00,680 prayers and praying with intention and 1376 01:04:06,460 --> 01:04:03,890 focused on an image in mind versus words 1377 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:06,470 I just think you know a picture is a 1378 01:04:11,500 --> 01:04:09,410 thousand words truly is and that's 1379 01:04:13,329 --> 01:04:11,510 actually how I personally pray so I just 1380 01:04:15,579 --> 01:04:13,339 thought that was interesting that you're 1381 01:04:17,140 --> 01:04:15,589 saying that it's like yeah that's true 1382 01:04:20,319 --> 01:04:17,150 people do communicate more through 1383 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:20,329 images now but one question I have for 1384 01:04:26,890 --> 01:04:24,650 you in regards to people people have 1385 01:04:28,150 --> 01:04:26,900 mysterious instances happening all the 1386 01:04:30,430 --> 01:04:28,160 time all over the world and that's 1387 01:04:32,829 --> 01:04:30,440 something at this show highlights often 1388 01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:32,839 times and I'm curious if you've ever 1389 01:04:40,150 --> 01:04:37,609 come across another potential image you 1390 01:04:42,780 --> 01:04:40,160 know somebody passed away and left an 1391 01:04:46,210 --> 01:04:42,790 image or a mark that could maybe be 1392 01:04:48,550 --> 01:04:46,220 compared to the Shroud of Turin how it 1393 01:04:50,849 --> 01:04:48,560 got its impression or is this something 1394 01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:50,859 that you may ambition to do one day 1395 01:04:58,359 --> 01:04:56,000 there have been things like that tend to 1396 01:05:01,030 --> 01:04:58,369 be more like smudges and shadows and 1397 01:05:04,900 --> 01:05:01,040 things like that but but but nothing 1398 01:05:09,099 --> 01:05:04,910 that seems to have the the clarity that 1399 01:05:12,069 --> 01:05:09,109 we see in the Shroud image and and so 1400 01:05:13,870 --> 01:05:12,079 you know it would so we're so really you 1401 01:05:16,900 --> 01:05:13,880 know yes we've found some things that 1402 01:05:19,900 --> 01:05:16,910 that that are interesting but again not 1403 01:05:22,420 --> 01:05:19,910 really comparable oh that's interesting 1404 01:05:26,470 --> 01:05:22,430 such as smudges but not whole 1405 01:05:29,530 --> 01:05:26,480 impressions no no goodness and you 1406 01:05:31,270 --> 01:05:29,540 believe it was like yes if you look if 1407 01:05:34,270 --> 01:05:31,280 you if you look at the tilma you'd find 1408 01:05:36,550 --> 01:05:34,280 that similar well when it comes to light 1409 01:05:40,809 --> 01:05:36,560 which is real interesting is that in 1410 01:05:41,980 --> 01:05:40,819 2011 researchers with the E and ei this 1411 01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:41,990 is the Italian agent 1412 01:05:47,650 --> 01:05:45,200 Seifer new technologies they've been 1413 01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:47,660 experimenting for several years with 1414 01:05:53,970 --> 01:05:50,960 with high-energy pulse lasers these are 1415 01:05:58,240 --> 01:05:53,980 these are ultraviolet excimer lasers and 1416 01:06:01,930 --> 01:05:58,250 they determined that a that a 40 nano 1417 01:06:04,359 --> 01:06:01,940 second burst on this UV laser against a 1418 01:06:07,570 --> 01:06:04,369 control sample of linen achieves the 1419 01:06:10,420 --> 01:06:07,580 very same depth and coloration as we see 1420 01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:10,430 on the Shroud and I think that's really 1421 01:06:15,700 --> 01:06:13,280 an intriguing you know a 40 nano second 1422 01:06:18,130 --> 01:06:15,710 for a a nanosecond is a billionth of a 1423 01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:18,140 second so this is a 40 nano so you can't 1424 01:06:24,370 --> 01:06:21,770 you can't blink your eyes that fast I 1425 01:06:27,010 --> 01:06:24,380 think's really intriguing because one of 1426 01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:27,020 them one of the best descriptions of 1427 01:06:32,380 --> 01:06:29,810 what happened to Jesus in the tomb comes 1428 01:06:36,100 --> 01:06:32,390 from the Apostle Paul who writes in 1st 1429 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:36,110 Corinthians 15 and he says this behold I 1430 01:06:42,820 --> 01:06:39,290 show you a mystery we shall not all 1431 01:06:45,550 --> 01:06:42,830 sleep but we shall all be changed in a 1432 01:06:47,740 --> 01:06:45,560 flash in the twinkling of an eye and I'm 1433 01:06:49,390 --> 01:06:47,750 saying wait a minute we're gonna be 1434 01:06:51,340 --> 01:06:49,400 cheap you see he's not even talking 1435 01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:51,350 about Jesus here he's talking about you 1436 01:06:57,580 --> 01:06:53,450 and me he's talking about a future event 1437 01:06:59,800 --> 01:06:57,590 and so but but he talks about a flash in 1438 01:07:02,080 --> 01:06:59,810 the in the in the twinkling of an eye 1439 01:07:05,020 --> 01:07:02,090 now this is exactly what happened to 1440 01:07:06,730 --> 01:07:05,030 Jesus in the tomb because Jesus is 1441 01:07:08,740 --> 01:07:06,740 called the firstfruits of the 1442 01:07:11,170 --> 01:07:08,750 resurrection if he's the firstfruits 1443 01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:11,180 then that means we are the rest of the 1444 01:07:16,270 --> 01:07:12,890 fruit that comes later at the end of the 1445 01:07:20,730 --> 01:07:16,280 age and so and so so when saying myself 1446 01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:20,740 may a flash may be a 40 nanosecond flash 1447 01:07:28,599 --> 01:07:26,210 that's kind of cool that is Wow have you 1448 01:07:31,210 --> 01:07:28,609 ever heard of some of the research that 1449 01:07:34,930 --> 01:07:31,220 was done in regards to like the the 1450 01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:34,940 bleeding statues with the blood coming 1451 01:07:41,980 --> 01:07:39,890 out of the eyes of Jesus and yea the 1452 01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:41,990 tears and I watched the program where 1453 01:07:47,380 --> 01:07:44,570 they they tested the blood and it turned 1454 01:07:51,609 --> 01:07:47,390 out to be woman's blood and they're like 1455 01:07:54,340 --> 01:07:51,619 well if Jesus was immaculately concepted 1456 01:07:55,870 --> 01:07:54,350 this would kind of play into that and 1457 01:07:58,870 --> 01:07:55,880 I'm but you mentioned that 1458 01:08:02,950 --> 01:07:58,880 blood that was that you guys tested it 1459 01:08:04,569 --> 01:08:02,960 was male DNA yeah that's fascinating had 1460 01:08:07,749 --> 01:08:04,579 you ever looked into some of that and 1461 01:08:10,799 --> 01:08:07,759 looked at some of the potential I don't 1462 01:08:15,099 --> 01:08:10,809 know likenesses that this phenomenon has 1463 01:08:16,749 --> 01:08:15,109 no because III really I just stick with 1464 01:08:19,599 --> 01:08:16,759 the Shroud because of all the science 1465 01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:19,609 that's that's been done on it it's it's 1466 01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:22,130 I I really try to stick with that and 1467 01:08:31,030 --> 01:08:27,170 it's the the III I guess the other thing 1468 01:08:32,919 --> 01:08:31,040 I'm been interested in lately is is 1469 01:08:35,379 --> 01:08:32,929 exploring all these all these near-death 1470 01:08:39,990 --> 01:08:35,389 experiences and which have been quite 1471 01:08:42,220 --> 01:08:40,000 quite intriguing and it's and it's and 1472 01:08:44,589 --> 01:08:42,230 so I've been I've been doing some 1473 01:08:46,450 --> 01:08:44,599 research in that area because there's 1474 01:08:48,910 --> 01:08:46,460 been you know thousands and thousands of 1475 01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:48,920 them oh you've got a you've got to read 1476 01:08:54,249 --> 01:08:52,250 my book Jesus is no joke I had I'd met 1477 01:08:57,729 --> 01:08:54,259 Jesus four different times in that book 1478 01:09:01,059 --> 01:08:57,739 oh really okay yes I will I will I will 1479 01:09:02,890 --> 01:09:01,069 pick it up yeah and yeah it was number 1480 01:09:04,419 --> 01:09:02,900 one on Amazon for eight months in its 1481 01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:04,429 category so and the near-death 1482 01:09:08,260 --> 01:09:05,359 experience 1483 01:09:14,169 --> 01:09:08,270 what's an end of it again Jesus is no 1484 01:09:16,059 --> 01:09:14,179 joke and you go check out Kevin's I'm 1485 01:09:18,220 --> 01:09:16,069 sorry but his book is only one of what 1486 01:09:20,169 --> 01:09:18,230 like two Marian apparitions 1487 01:09:21,519 --> 01:09:20,179 I mean fascinating collection Marian 1488 01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:21,529 apparition it's called Marian Marian 1489 01:09:26,349 --> 01:09:23,770 Marian apparitions are real and it's 1490 01:09:30,970 --> 01:09:26,359 only the two or three survey books in 1491 01:09:33,010 --> 01:09:30,980 the history of the world but it's I had 1492 01:09:35,740 --> 01:09:33,020 been thankfully I've had some 1493 01:09:38,709 --> 01:09:35,750 experiences that have bolstered my faith 1494 01:09:40,629 --> 01:09:38,719 and I don't know I feel really good 1495 01:09:42,550 --> 01:09:40,639 about it now I but I think people do 1496 01:09:44,379 --> 01:09:42,560 need tangible evidence I think they do 1497 01:09:46,689 --> 01:09:44,389 yes I know you should believe without 1498 01:09:49,180 --> 01:09:46,699 having to see all the time but I mean 1499 01:09:51,879 --> 01:09:49,190 people need something substantive that 1500 01:09:53,649 --> 01:09:51,889 all the goatee stroking professors out 1501 01:09:55,450 --> 01:09:53,659 there and katfoe rocks at and I think 1502 01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:55,460 the shroud and the tilma and some other 1503 01:09:59,800 --> 01:09:57,920 things he puristic miracles and other 1504 01:10:04,229 --> 01:09:59,810 near-death experiences all these things 1505 01:10:06,350 --> 01:10:04,239 in cumulative form are reassuring and 1506 01:10:10,010 --> 01:10:06,360 certainly 1507 01:10:14,149 --> 01:10:10,020 by any means well I think you're 1508 01:10:16,399 --> 01:10:14,159 absolutely right in the you know one of 1509 01:10:19,459 --> 01:10:16,409 the things I tell my evangelical friends 1510 01:10:22,100 --> 01:10:19,469 when they say well you know you know God 1511 01:10:24,020 --> 01:10:22,110 would do it that way because because the 1512 01:10:27,109 --> 01:10:24,030 scripture says you know you know that 1513 01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:27,119 you know you know lesson of those who 1514 01:10:32,030 --> 01:10:30,449 believe and have not seen great and that 1515 01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:32,040 Ana and I say to them yes 1516 01:10:37,850 --> 01:10:35,130 that's true blessed are those who could 1517 01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:37,860 believe and have not seen but remember 1518 01:10:44,959 --> 01:10:41,010 Jesus did not condemn Thomas for his 1519 01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:44,969 unbelief and so and so and so Thomas 1520 01:10:51,830 --> 01:10:49,199 represents an element of humanity let's 1521 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:51,840 say that just needs a little push in the 1522 01:10:58,129 --> 01:10:54,810 right direction and that's what I think 1523 01:11:00,080 --> 01:10:58,139 this route is all about well he can't 1524 01:11:02,750 --> 01:11:00,090 perform miracles for the same reason 1525 01:11:10,220 --> 01:11:02,760 that wasn't sure just do you know do 1526 01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:10,230 parlor parlor tricks he did it in in 1527 01:11:15,500 --> 01:11:12,690 Acts chapter 1 verse 3 it says this 1528 01:11:19,129 --> 01:11:15,510 talking about Jesus after his suffering 1529 01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:19,139 he showed himself to be alive through 1530 01:11:24,859 --> 01:11:22,800 many convincing proofs now most of those 1531 01:11:28,700 --> 01:11:24,869 proofs were probably post resurrection 1532 01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:28,710 appearances but the first truth was the 1533 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:32,010 linen cloth lying there that caused John 1534 01:11:37,939 --> 01:11:35,610 to believe that he had risen so the so 1535 01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:37,949 the linen shroud lying there in the tomb 1536 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:40,770 was the first proof that Jesus had risen 1537 01:11:46,729 --> 01:11:44,610 from the dead now to me why is it a 1538 01:11:49,490 --> 01:11:46,739 stretch to believe that that first proof 1539 01:11:51,470 --> 01:11:49,500 was not we've not gathered and held and 1540 01:11:53,750 --> 01:11:51,480 protected and passed down from one 1541 01:11:55,939 --> 01:11:53,760 generation to the next and then it's 1542 01:11:58,689 --> 01:11:55,949 gonna and it's in Turin Italy right now 1543 01:12:02,330 --> 01:11:58,699 I don't think that that's a stretch I 1544 01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:02,340 don't think it Israel it's been great 1545 01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:04,080 having you Russ and what we'll send you 1546 01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:06,570 a copy a link to the show you know or 1547 01:12:09,729 --> 01:12:08,880 utilize any way you like and well 1548 01:12:12,830 --> 01:12:09,739 wonderful 1549 01:12:17,869 --> 01:12:12,840 yeah absolute pleasure chatting with you 1550 01:12:19,369 --> 01:12:17,879 oh and well 1551 01:12:22,219 --> 01:12:19,379 okay sir will you have a good evening 1552 01:12:24,609 --> 01:12:22,229 out there in Georgia and we'll talk 1553 01:12:27,469 --> 01:12:24,619 about the couple coming events and will 1554 01:12:33,349 --> 01:12:27,479 will be kept we'll keep in touch all 1555 01:12:35,229 --> 01:12:33,359 right thanks so much yes take care Heidi 1556 01:12:39,319 --> 01:12:35,239 that was a pretty good show I thought uh 1557 01:12:41,569 --> 01:12:39,329 wow the information on it I I'm just 1558 01:12:43,699 --> 01:12:41,579 tickled I'm just tickled that all these 1559 01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:43,709 like I said these goatee stroking 1560 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:46,320 professors they're sexy like they know 1561 01:12:51,349 --> 01:12:48,090 everything they really know nothing and 1562 01:12:55,369 --> 01:12:51,359 it tickles me but really that tilma has 1563 01:12:56,839 --> 01:12:55,379 the same kind of miraculous features too 1564 01:12:58,369 --> 01:12:56,849 it's actually more colorful than the 1565 01:13:01,459 --> 01:12:58,379 Shroud and more vivid you can see it 1566 01:13:04,779 --> 01:13:01,469 right on yeah I took a look at it pretty 1567 01:13:09,379 --> 01:13:04,789 pretty fascinating 16th century it is 1568 01:13:11,659 --> 01:13:09,389 thank a little Kevin I just really want 1569 01:13:25,449 --> 01:13:11,669 to thank you I really enjoyed the yes 1570 01:13:29,779 --> 01:13:28,339 but yes I do there was on the very 1571 01:13:33,409 --> 01:13:29,789 bottom of her feet there was some 1572 01:13:35,449 --> 01:13:33,419 medieval idiot that added headed a chair 1573 01:13:37,099 --> 01:13:35,459 coat but that's not part of the original 1574 01:13:40,580 --> 01:13:37,109 garment that's not part of the original 1575 01:13:42,139 --> 01:13:40,590 garment that's so next week like I say 1576 01:13:44,689 --> 01:13:42,149 for the folks listing we will have 1577 01:13:46,699 --> 01:13:44,699 Paulino and paul's always he's got a new 1578 01:13:49,129 --> 01:13:46,709 book coming out it's just coming out and 1579 01:13:50,659 --> 01:13:49,139 he's also got all kinds of the latest 1580 01:13:54,679 --> 01:13:50,669 scuttlebutt from New England which is 1581 01:13:56,299 --> 01:13:54,689 also uh maybe not as exotic as Chicago 1582 01:13:59,509 --> 01:13:56,309 but it's pretty close so a lot of stuff 1583 01:14:01,369 --> 01:13:59,519 going to link those two but and actually 1584 01:14:03,949 --> 01:14:01,379 I've been sending you stuff about New 1585 01:14:05,779 --> 01:14:03,959 York of course and they have an awful 1586 01:14:10,489 --> 01:14:05,789 lot of haunted restaurants and how did 1587 01:14:12,949 --> 01:14:10,499 it ends and yes it's mostly beautiful 1588 01:14:14,689 --> 01:14:12,959 trails mostly beautiful trails but it's 1589 01:14:18,830 --> 01:14:14,699 got some its own little farm of exotica 1590 01:14:21,949 --> 01:14:18,840 there and I don't know one of these days 1591 01:14:24,169 --> 01:14:21,959 I'll stay Texas and go back home 1592 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:24,179 but right good night folks we had a good